961 is back !

Fast Eddie said:
TMF did a second review.

Spoiler alert: he says he stands by his earlier negative review.

But interestingly, at the end, he sums up his negativity by saying it’s down to how much the bike costs how how the spec sheet doesn’t match up to cheaper alternatives.

I think that’s a really relevant point because, frankly, any potential or actual customer ALREADY KNOWS THAT so it is clearly not a fundamental part of the buying decision to them !

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and thats why I could care less about "reviews"
 
City Garage said:
and thats why I could care less about "reviews"
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I saw all the new Commando videos on YT that have been available since last year to date.
As for the one from MF, what struck me was hearing that he has had the bike on loan from Norton for two weeks, and that he rode it only twice. Can you imagine the circumstances of that?
As for reviewing something, my experience is that for any machine or tool, you only really get to know it after much longer, sometimes it takes years to experience all the slight differences under various conditions. And also, is it not a waste to make two long videos and not even fully rev it out once? The three-digit odo reading looked like it was past break-in.
Some of the best motoring videos are the ones with little to no talking, just riding and letting the viewer sense what is going on.
 
City Garage said:
And the "reviews" are not real. Everyone wants to slant it just to keep doing what they are doing on social media. Imagine the guy who really wants to review with a no holds barred view. No manufacturer wants that, even on a slightly honest review. One of my customers, who is a social media person, and when he made a video of one of his new motorcycles; the manufacturer sent him a letter with numerous threats and also went to the hosting company and threatened them as well to get it taken down. He is now barred from returning to that manufacturer's dealers and was told they won't sell him another product as well. They actually tried to get him to return the bike and rewind the deal. Come to think of it, I think Ferrari said the same thing to him as well.

So when I see the glowing reviews from people who are in it for the clicks, I don't even watch or read them.
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When they first hit our shores, some Californian reviewer originally thought the 961 is ok, then the new Triumph came out and all of a sudden he's calling the Norton a POS, garbage blah blah. He was comparing new linen to old leather. A total douche that works at a Triumph dealership. I ripped him a new ass. Punk.

Watched the vid posted above. Can't accept a review from some putz that barely goes above 3 grand, 40 mph, complains about his sore tushy and never mentions the bike being made of high quality components and built like a tank. You want sterile? buy a Thaiumph. You're missing the point of having that old school vibey feel. That said, I like Triumphs. I'm considering one. Not as a replacement, for a nice 2 up for wifey and I. She's 64 and still getting on the back of my T140 D
 
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TMF not really doing the bike justice there, again - rides it for the 2nd time only (in two weeks?), poodling around a few quiet hamlets without getting it up into the sweet spot where it‘s at its best.

Again, not really doing his homework IMO. Built using the same configuration as the original commando to give that authentic riding experience - air cooled, parallel twin, push rod, 2 valver.
He actually says “you’re not going to forget you’re on a motorcycle” relating to comment on vibration, like he gets it, before comparing it to modern mass produced liquid cooled competitors proving that he doesn’t.

As FE says, purchasers are not looking at the performance/spec sheet as a main decision limiter - so why sum up with that as your principal point?

Purchase price is a value proposition. If you value a low volume, more exclusive and authentic (to its heritage) machine that’s made in the UK (or just want a Norton), then it’s worth the 16K. If you value performance and price point more, then it’s not I guess.

I’d say the 961 is a motorcycling enthusiasts bike. TMF reviewed it as a motorcycle consumerist. To be expected I suppose. My opinion only.
 
Britfan60 said:
When they first hit our shores, some Californian reviewer originally thought the 961 is ok, then the new Triumph came out and all of a sudden he's calling the Norton a POS, garbage blah blah. He was comparing new linen to old leather. A total douche that works at a Triumph dealership. I ripped him a new ass. Punk.

Watched the vid posted above. Can't accept a review from some putz that barely goes above 3 grand, 40 mph, complains about his sore tushy and never mentions the bike being made of high quality components and built like a tank. You want sterile? buy a Thaiumph. You're missing the point of having that old school vibey feel. That said, I like Triumphs. I'm considering one. Not as a replacement, for a nice 2 up for wifey and I. She's 64 and still getting on the back of my T140 D
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The t120 Bonne is a great lazy 2 up. They do that job very well.
 
Whether or not you like the review, at least the guy is honest.
He continually returns to the two factors that are most important to him. The spec sheet of features, and the price point of the 961. I believe most riders think this way as well. Especially young riders and newbies. He says that he understands the attraction of owning a classic British bike, the sound, the styling, etc., the vibes. He says he likes the feel of the bike on a beautiful summer day, on a British road......, but those same two pesky factors keep popping up in his mind.

He's being honest, I just think someone more able to express the strengths of the 961 should have been utilized to perform the review/road test.
 
Agreed, mostly BT. It’s easy to be critical I know, but TMF gets a lot of followers - Norton wouldn’t give a 961 to just anyone for a fortnight, so he has a bit of a responsibility to do the work.

He singles out price and performance as a negative comparison, but makes no real attempt to explain why there may be difference in these areas (beyond a mention of low volume).

One has the basic configuration of a classic and rides and performs accordingly, as designed; more about the riding experience than outright performance. The other is a modern spec sport bike, dressed as a classic and rides and performs as such.

One is low volume, made in the UK (by the definition), from high(er) spec materials/components.
The other is mass produced overseas and engineered down to a price point. As are most mass produced bikes.

He’s pretty good at what he does, so it’s not a stretch to think that he could have briefly made these distinctions.

Absolutely not knocking Triumph and certainly don’t wanna start the ‘made in UK/high spec/premium‘ discussions again:oops:! So, my opinion only.

961 is back !
 
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I think his opinion is honest.
Not everyone is going to like or love the same characteristics of one over the other.
He’s mentioned the vibrations, I prefer to feel the mechanics of a machine, he doesn’t.

Some people love parallel twins, some love inline 4 cylinders, some love V twins, some love V4 etc.
Same reason why Harley guys hate Harley for the V-Rod and new Revolution Max motor.

I noticed the clunk from neutral to 1st is still there. The exhaust sounds like my SF with the decat x pipe and short motad mufflers.

Apparently the neutral light is still an issue.

I still think the market is too small for the 961. Nearly nobody is interested in paying the asking price for lesser value when compared to other offerings.

The 961 attracts a unique buyer, he’s not one of them.
 
Stephen_Spencer said:
Agreed, mostly BT. It’s easy to be critical I know, but TMF gets a lot of followers - Norton wouldn’t give a 961 to just anyone for a fortnight, so he has a bit of a responsibility to do the work.

He singles out price and performance as a negative comparison, but makes no real attempt to explain why there may be difference in these areas (beyond a mention of low volume).

One has the basic configuration of a classic and rides and performs accordingly, as designed; more about the riding experience than outright performance. The other is a modern spec sport bike, dressed as a classic and rides and performs as such.

One is low volume, made in the UK (by the definition), from high(er) spec materials/components.
The other is mass produced overseas and engineered down to a price point. As are most mass produced bikes.

He’s pretty good at what he does, so it’s not a stretch to think that he could have briefly made these distinctions.

Absolutely not knocking Triumph and certainly don’t wanna start the ‘made in UK/high spec/premium‘ discussions again:oops:! So, my opinion only.
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Again SS you keep missing the point.
You’re 60 years old. The younger buyer isn’t interested in the points you’re trying to make.

I deal with this same topic with a friend of mine who’s 21 years younger than me. All they care about is the dollar to performance ratio.

I’m interested in how you say the triumph or other retro classics are of a lower spec components or materials?
How so?
 
Voodooo said:
I think his opinion is honest.
Not everyone is going to like or love the same characteristics of one over the other.
He’s mentioned the vibrations, I prefer to feel the mechanics of a machine, he doesn’t.

Some people love parallel twins, some love inline 4 cylinders, some love V twins, some love V4 etc.
Same reason why Harley guys hate Harley for the V-Rod and new Revolution Max motor.

I noticed the clunk from neutral to 1st is still there. The exhaust sounds like my SF with the decat x pipe and short motad mufflers.

Apparently the neutral light is still an issue.

I still think the market is too small for the 961. Nearly nobody is interested in paying the asking price for lesser value when compared to other offerings.

The 961 attracts a unique buyer, he’s not one of them.
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Voodooo said:
Again SS you keep missing the point.
You’re 60 years old. The younger buyer isn’t interested in the points you’re trying to make.

I deal with this same topic with a friend of mine who’s 21 years younger than me. All they care about is the dollar to performance ratio.

I’m interested in how you say the triumph or other retro classics are of a lower spec components or materials?
How so?
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Depends on who’s point you think I’m missing Voodooo. With respect though, it may more likely be a case of you misinterpreting mine slightly;) - which was:

I believe that TMF has not adequatelly covered the reasons for the disparity in performance and cost between the 961 and his likely measure, Triumph. Relevant because he uses these two criteria to compare them - most notably in the conclusion, where he states that he could not recommend purchase of the 961. 75K views between the two videos. Dishonest - no. Lacking in a thorough comparison/appraisal - probably.

TMF‘s function (business model) as a blogger/vlogger is to provide a balanced view/comparison of any bikes he reviews to his many followers, not least because he often gives a recommendation at the end (as he did with the 961). So, it’s not just about what he likes or dislikes. Not just that he may prefer a smooth power delivery to one with more vibration. He’s usually pretty good at this. I think he’s fallen a little short this time because there is’nt anything on the market that forms an easy comparison with the 961.

My posts above have nothing to do with ‘the younger buyer’ or what different age groups may like or dislike. On the topic though, I don’t believe the 961 is being marketed at the younger generation (for obvious reasons) nor that the likely older buyer (us) is generally interested in the ‘dollar to performance ratio’?

Not sure that we can accurately say that ‘nearly nobody is interested’ in the 961 mate. Only time and a bit of disclosure will tell us that. We’ve just gotta hope for the best - and keep speculating of course!
 
Voodooo said:
The 961 attracts a unique buyer, he’s not one of them.
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Exactly, The spec sheet is not really a consideration to the potential buyer, as FE stated earlier:

"I think that’s a really irrelevant point because, frankly, any potential or actual customer ALREADY KNOWS THAT so it is clearly not a fundamental part of the buying decision to them !"

A dude thinking about buying a 961 for £16K is just hoping it's reliable, and serviceable like other brands, but he's already bought into the whole Norton lore and mystique, or he would have simply laughed at the price tag, and just moved on.
 
I’m more of a traditionalist ref engine/bike appearance, but definitely liking this combination that Norton Birmingham is producing.

The polished wheels will be a pain in the UK but they look pretty damn fine! Same same the polished cases contrast to blacked engine combo.

Hadn’t noticed the headlight mount (polished here I think) before - modified from the original and holding the indicators. Still not sure why they ditched the bikini fairing - more traditional I guess.

Did they ditch the braided lines?

IMG_8101.jpeg
 
Stephen_Spencer said:
I’m more of a traditionalist ref engine/bike appearance, but definitely liking this combination that Norton Birmingham is producing.

The polished wheels will be a pain in the UK but they look pretty damn fine! Same same the polished cases contrast to blacked engine combo.

Hadn’t noticed the headlight mount (polished here I think) before - modified from the original and holding the indicators. Still not sure why they ditched the bikini fairing - more traditional I guess.

Did they ditch the braided lines?

View attachment 108637
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That’s the same headlight mount as the Dominator. Polished stainless sheet metal. Not the cast aluminum previously used on the Donington commando.

Brake lines look to be black
 
All kinds of interesting going on at the front end of Stu’s Dommie, that I had’nt noticed before (Pic by Paul FB). Would that front end be quite low or am I missing something.

Looks the bomb! Congrats Stu - a foregone conclusion methinks!

961 is back !
 
Heard of ‘making an entrance’? This is the definition of ‘making an exit’! 🤣

I’m not sure in all of my years I’ve seen a bike with more presence! It’s literally saying ‘f@#k you’ in bike speak, and I love it!!

Lovin the guy, that he clearly doesn’t know, walking up and asking him if he can rev it; while the bods on the left are preparing to take video. Never seen that happen for a Thruxton (or a vintage Commando - sorry!)

Not sure the rozzers round ere’ would appreciate it though!:oops:.

Volume up!

 
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Stephen_Spencer said:
Heard of ‘making an entrance’? This is the definition of ‘making an exit’! 🤣

I’m not sure in all of my years I’ve seen a bike with more presence! It’s literally saying ‘f@#k you’ in bike speak, and I love it!!

Lovin the guy, that he clearly doesn’t know, walking up and asking him if he can rev it; while the bods on the left are preparing to take video. Never seen that happen for a Thruxton (or a vintage Commando - sorry!)

Not sure the rozzers round ere’ would appreciate it though!:oops:.

Volume up!

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Too loud for me.

Prolly wouldn’t have said that a few years ago tho !
 
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