850 frame distinguishing features

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APRRSV

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Aside from measuring the steering head angle, are there any distinguishing features that definitively identify a bare 850 frame vis a vis a 750 frame?

Ed
 
they have longer inner top shock mounts to support the sagging prone seat loop
 
850 frames have the part # on the LH tank mount so the 73,74, 75 can be determined and almost all of them have the frame# stamped in the neck (which is NOT the VIN)
 
baz said:
they have longer inner top shock mounts to support the sagging prone seat loop

Early 850 frames (850 Mk1) don't.
 
Aren't the 850 steering necks made at 28 degrees of rake rather than 27? Or is that just a Mk III thing? I could understand the '73 850 frames being the same as the 750s because they changed horses in the middle of the stream (year).
 
Danno said:
Aren't the 850 steering necks made at 28 degrees of rake rather than 27?

Yes, but the OP did say: "Aside from measuring the steering head angle...". :wink:


Danno said:
I could understand the '73 850 frames being the same as the 750s because they changed horses in the middle of the stream (year).

It seems they did it the other way, the last (230xxx series) 750s apparently having '850' geometry frames (and 'ANG' yokes).
 
L.A.B. said:
baz said:
they have longer inner top shock mounts to support the sagging prone seat loop

Early 850 frames (850 Mk1) don't.
I stand corrected I always thought all the 850 frames had the extended gussets cheers baz
 
Great info, as usual, Les. The SS clone has a '71 frame and '75 fork yokes. Wonder what that adds up to in terms of rake and trail?
 
Danno said:
Great info, as usual, Les. The SS clone has a '71 frame and '75 fork yokes. Wonder what that adds up to in terms of rake and trail?

You'd still have the 27° rake of the 750 frame, but less trail due to the '75 fork yokes not keeping the tubes parallel with the stem. That would make the bike a little quicker to turn into corners, but less stable in high speed sweepers. I calculated the difference in trail some years back, but can't find the data right now. As I recall the change in trail is something like 6 mm.

Ken
 
Itismore about how the bike handles coming out of corners on the gas,which is important, if the bike doesn't mishandle under braking. Take care.
 
lcrken said:
Danno said:
Great info, as usual, Les. The SS clone has a '71 frame and '75 fork yokes. Wonder what that adds up to in terms of rake and trail?

You'd still have the 27° rake of the 750 frame, but less trail due to the '75 fork yokes not keeping the tubes parallel with the stem. That would make the bike a little quicker to turn into corners, but less stable in high speed sweepers. I calculated the difference in trail some years back, but can't find the data right now. As I recall the change in trail is something like 6 mm.

Ken
Quicker steering is ok with me. I have dropped the front end of my ZX-14 by 3/8" by sliding the tubes up in the clamps, which is not a viable option of the Roadholders.
 
Danno said:
L.A.B. said:
baz said:
they have longer inner top shock mounts to support the sagging prone seat loop

Early 850 frames (850 Mk1) don't.
The '73 flood victim 850 (VIN 301341 build date 3/73) has them.

It's unusual for the frame to have them that early. Do they look like original one-piece inner plates and not additional triangular sections that could have been added (seen that before).

Does the frame have a part number stamped on the front face of the left-hand fuel tank bracket? According to the parts books, the original '73 850 frame is 06-4140, the later 850 frame is 06-5404. The change in part number due to the later frame having the extended inner plates because as far as I know, there's no other apparent difference between the two.
 
Last edited:
Brackets appear original, not added-on. No number on the left tank mount, but on the steering neck adjacent to the VIN plate, the frame is stamped 00104.
 
Another weird thing; the paint is the (formerly) lovely fireflake blue, but the graphics are gold with no pinstripes. Hard to fathom a machine with 4500 miles being repainted, but I guess it's possible.

With the 21-tooth sprocket, 2-bronze, 3 fiber clutch stack and bodged-up primary work, it's obviously not untouched.
 
.

Among 850 frames, there are some differences with the welded tabs that are part of the locking system for the forks.


The John Player model frames are unique among commando frames, too, with holes drilled for the VIN plate on the frame backbone, as well as a uniquely clipped fork locking tab on the fork stem tube.



.
 
Danno said:
Brackets appear original, not added-on.

Curiouser and curiouser then.
According to my copy of the NOC Service Notes, the extended gusset plates were introduced for '1974' although I think it actually happened around mid-'73. :?


Danno said:
but on the steering neck adjacent to the VIN plate, the frame is stamped 00104.

That does suggest it's a reasonably early 850 frame. Does it have a 60mm spine tube?


Robert_Norton said:
Among 850 frames, there are some differences with the welded tabs that are part of the locking system for the forks.

The 850 Mk3 frames certainly have a different type of steering lock plate.
 
The backbone is 60mm. Here is a shot of the oil tank cover;
850 frame distinguishing features
 
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