750 Commando Title Transfer Issue

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I'm sending a letter to the American Motorcyclist Association of which I am a member and has a Governmental Relations staff. Maybe they can find out if the DOJ or DOT are even aware of this issue. From all of your posts it is a bigger issue than I thought it was.
 
Geodimeter said:
I'm sending a letter to the American Motorcyclist Association of which I am a member and has a Governmental Relations staff. Maybe they can find out if the DOJ or DOT are even aware of this issue. From all of your posts it is a bigger issue than I thought it was.
Click to expand...
If we need to start a legal defense team for our Norton Community, I'll be the first to contribute. I am a member of an international independent BMW tech group and back in '96 it is because of 13 of us in our Group that with a connection to the EPA that we got the European car manufactures to release the data as well as authorization for independent companies to produce their own diagnostic equipment for independents like myself. We proved to the EPA why their own rules required this action. It was a big win. And not just for the BMW community, the worldwide community vs. the European Car Manufacturers.

Point is it's just finding the right person in the right area. I am happy to offer any of my time on this "for the good of all" at any moment, or if someone can direct me I'm happy to follow up. My wife is pretty connected in the legal world here in NC and would be more than happy to help as well. We're on "a mission from God" to quote a phrase.
 
A few posts back I asked what does Jay Leno do when faced with such bureaucratic intransigence. He has resources and people to work around such issues. I know he has a Dominator in his collection, seen it on his YouTube video. Anyone have a contact with Leno's organisation? Sometimes informal methods work best. Sometimes just being at the right place at the right time works.

I speak from some experience as a one-time member of the SAE who had the good fortune to have drinks in the hotel bar With a CARB (California Air Resources Board) person after I did a presentation on using general purpost electronic test equipment. The venue was Cobo hall in Detroit during the annual SAE convention. One result of that conversation was that CARB implemented OBD and then OBD II which required manufacturers to make a data stream available that could be read with an inexpensive, general-purpose tool. My presentation pointed out that the industry was in the process of locking customers into dealerships for repair and maintenance using very expensive guided-fault-isolation-systems that only the dealers would have.

CARB was able to force this issue through the EPA but aside from emissions-related issues the industry has been able to lock in diagnostics and repair anyway, which is why I maintain 50 year old equipment and intend to continue to do so. Lately both John Deere and Harley Davidson are defendants in class action suits over "Right to Repair." Our present problem is a side issue to that. If we can't register them being able to repair them is of no consequence. Our right to repair is effectively compromised.
 
TomU said:
The issue is how a State uses the national registry run by DOJ (the National Motor Vehicle Title Information System or NMVTIS). This should be a concern for all Norton owners in the US because you could have your title nullified like Greg's if another vehicle matches your VIN enters the NMVTIS. While the VIN database is managed at the Federal level, the policy on addressing VIN conflicts is probably handled at the State level. The policy should be that if a current VIN exists in the system, a new registration cannot be issued with that same number and a different number should be used for the new registrant. However, in Greg's case a registration in another State went through and it nullified a current and valid registration. If it happened to him, it can happen to anyone and it's not the State you are in that's the issue, it's the State that's issuing the Title. We all need to write DOJ and our States and make them aware of this issue and ask for their policy when titling a new VIN that matches an existing VIN
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Friend, I have been horse trading 45 years.
Over 100 private sale vehicles. (from all over the US)
I have what I feel is a very complete working knowledge of the title system.
I have made a personal choice, to NOT try to "boil the ocean".
Writing a letter to the DOJ may be the method you feel is best, but I have zero time to try persuade one of our totally corrupt government departments to give a rats arse about my old junk.
I simply choose to take the "path of least resistance".
I have nothing further to add.

JMWO
 
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concours said:
Friend, I have been horse trading 45 years.
Over 100 private sale vehicles. (from all over the US)
I have what I feel is a very complete working knowledge of the title system.
I have made a personal choice, to NOT try to "boil the ocean".
Writing a letter to the DOJ may be the method you feel is best, but I have zero time to try persuade one of our totally corrupt government departments to give a rats arse about my old junk.
I simply choose to take the "path if least resistance".
I have nothing further to add.

JMWO
Click to expand...
If the things I'm doing don't get it fixed, the path of least resistance is to start selling on eBay again, part out the bike, and sell everything for little money or find someone to buy it that needs parts and doesn't need a title. It also means that I need to part out all my other Nortons as I see no point in finishing them only to have them stolen by the Government.
 
concours said:
Friend, I have been horse trading 45 years.
Over 100 private sale vehicles. (from all over the US)
I have what I feel is a very complete working knowledge of the title system.
I have made a personal choice, to NOT try to "boil the ocean".
Writing a letter to the DOJ may be the method you feel is best, but I have zero time to try persuade one of our totally corrupt government departments to give a rats arse about my old junk.
I simply choose to take the "path if least resistance".
I have nothing further to add.
Click to expand...
Wonder if that position will change if any of your titles get invalidated
 
Geodimeter said:
I'm sending a letter to the American Motorcyclist Association of which I am a member and has a Governmental Relations staff. Maybe they can find out if the DOJ or DOT are even aware of this issue. From all of your posts it is a bigger issue than I thought it was.
Click to expand...
That's a great idea since they are primarily a lobbying group. However, they'll probably only take it on if it resonates with their membership
 
marshg246 said:
Took a while but I finally figured out that the culprit is: National Motor Vehicle Title Information System

I have written them at NMVTIS@usdoj.gov and asked for a call so I can explain how they are hurting us. They are a part of the DoJ.

Their website is: https://vehiclehistory.bja.ojp.gov/
Click to expand...
Update:

This is what I sent: I would like someone to call me 703-200-4025 so I can explain how your system is hurting people and in effect causing Virginia to participate in Grand Theft Auto.

This is the reply I got today: You will need to articulate your query within an email

I replied with my long explanation of what happened and what I've done to try to correct it.
 
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Every one of the 19 times going to the ministry office for vehicle transfers I'm cool , calm , collected and friendly . Not a speck of anger or negative thoughts upon entering .
Actually I've lingered a bit too long , as in having too good a day , and a bit too friendly . The staff need a ray of sunshine in their day , as most people are grumpy or upset about paying taxes or their time out of the work day or line up , or whatever. Try it , really works. The best day of your life , and theirs too. Life is short.
Enjoy.
 
In response to my long email, they replied:

"Thank you for your follow up email.

You have made a number of points, but please be advised that NMVTIS does not list the sale of automobiles. The providers of NMVTIS Vehicle History Reports, in addition to providing information from NMVTIS, they may also provide information from other sources that are outside of NMVTIS (e.g. sale information). The information reported in NMVITS will be indicated as such. In addition, NMVTIS will accept and recognize pre-1980 VINs (non-standard VINs; 17 characters or less).

If you believe that NMVTIS shows a record on your motorcycle that was submitted in error, then you will need to address that issue with the listed reporting entity, and request that they submit an amendment to NMVITS to correct/update their submitted record. Concerning the non-standard VIN records for a 2005 auto, we will have our NMVTIS system operator (AAMVA) follow up to ascertain the appropriateness of that record."

I replied to that:

"I understand that you don’t report the sale. As I understand it, MI reported the new title to you. VA looks up titles granted and when there’s a VIN match with a title of theirs, they summarily invalidate the VA title and registration.

I realize that you record shorter VINs – that’s how this mess started.

According to VA there are no humans involved. According to MI, they can change the VIN if the owner admits that it is incorrect – that has not happened."

So, it seems that the DoJ has contracted the database out to: https://www.aamva.org/ - that puts a hurt on me doing a FOIA request to the DoJ. I have now written them. Their office is in Arlington, VA.
 
Studied how to become an approved provider of the NMVTIS (AAMVA) data.
1) Application along with an ETF of $1000.
2) If approved, then $30,000 to AAMVA to create a web page to interact with - probably 5 minutes work.
3) Make your page to talk to their page and have them certify it.
4) Pay a fee for each transaction and the fee varies by volume.

Pretty damned expensive for a broken system! For one thing, they openly admit that although States, Insurance Companies, Salvage Yards have been required for a long time to participate that not all States do yet, some at real-time automatic, and others are on various schedules.

Federal Law requires the use of: "AAMVA is a tax-exempt, nonprofit association developing model programs in motor vehicle administration, law enforcement, and highway safety. As a trade association, AAMVA is governed by bylaws that define our membership and governance structure. Below find information on our corporate policies including terms and conditions and privacy policy and financial information including audited financial reports and tax form 990s."
 
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marshg246 said:
In response to my long email, they replied:

"Thank you for your follow up email.

You have made a number of points, but please be advised that NMVTIS does not list the sale of automobiles. The providers of NMVTIS Vehicle History Reports, in addition to providing information from NMVTIS, they may also provide information from other sources that are outside of NMVTIS (e.g. sale information). The information reported in NMVITS will be indicated as such. In addition, NMVTIS will accept and recognize pre-1980 VINs (non-standard VINs; 17 characters or less).

If you believe that NMVTIS shows a record on your motorcycle that was submitted in error, then you will need to address that issue with the listed reporting entity, and request that they submit an amendment to NMVITS to correct/update their submitted record. Concerning the non-standard VIN records for a 2005 auto, we will have our NMVTIS system operator (AAMVA) follow up to ascertain the appropriateness of that record."

I replied to that:

"I understand that you don’t report the sale. As I understand it, MI reported the new title to you. VA looks up titles granted and when there’s a VIN match with a title of theirs, they summarily invalidate the VA title and registration.

I realize that you record shorter VINs – that’s how this mess started.

According to VA there are no humans involved. According to MI, they can change the VIN if the owner admits that it is incorrect – that has not happened."

So, it seems that the DoJ has contracted the database out to: https://www.aamva.org/ - that puts a hurt on me doing a FOIA request to the DoJ. I have now written them. Their office is in Arlington, VA.
Click to expand...

Well, I love road trips so maybe a nice friendly visit talking to whomever has the vehicle with your VIN over a free dinner and drinks might motivate him/her/business to help us...
 
Yes Ontario has problems.
Did a change of address 20+ years ago and the gal at the License Bureau told me that the exact serial # and bike type was licensed to someone in Ottawa.
Personal and business connection between us existed. As I had a paper title and pictures of the bike & engine # she was able to update my ownership papers.
She indicated that she flagged the issue to the administrators with a "file number" for reference and wrote same on my ownership. Never heard back, so I assume it
was straightened out on the other end.
In short, it's who you know... :)
 
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