1971 Roadster – The Great Impulse Purchase

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Many of you know how this story begins. "So this one night I was looking on Craigslist..." I am sure most can fill in the next part of the story with their own tale.

Mine continues with this little fellow following me home after an impulse purchase. There was a little explanation to my wife on what she was looking at. Luckily she does not know that I paid too much for a bike in this condition ($1800). Nor did I tell her how the vision of restored Norton’s on this site clouded my judgment. Oh well, no reason to dwell on the small details at this point in time.

1971 Roadster – The Great Impulse Purchase


What is really important is that I now have a Norton in the garage with no personal experience on restoring a motorcycle. I do know that I will have more questions than answers and that this would not be possible for to attempt this without the internet or this forum. The bike is a 1971 Roadster, VIN 144861.

1971 Roadster – The Great Impulse Purchase


This bike was a barn find so I did not have a chance to look at all of the details. Maybe I should have spent a little more time with a flashlight and I would have discovered what is now painfully obvious.

1971 Roadster – The Great Impulse Purchase


Yep, the downtubes on the frame are pinched. I later discovered that this is common and easy to do if aftermarket accessories are tightened a little too much. Probably should have known that before I rushed out of the house to look at this bike.

Another trip to Craigslist turned up a frame in PA for the right price ($125). A call to a friend that was in the area to pick it up and a week later it was in my garage. He is better than UPS. I later discovered that the engine cradle was included with the purchase. So this is how you begin to gather duplicate parts during this type of restoration?

1971 Roadster – The Great Impulse Purchase


Now for my first question: The frame purchased has a VIN of 300044, which puts it as an 850 Commando. I have read about the difference in the frontend rake and the better stability of the 850 vs. the earlier years. If this will not work, I will begin a search for a new frame.

Second Question: As I began to do some more searching on the bike I was unable to find the engine number. Is this the correct location and is there a reason that there is no number stamped here?

1971 Roadster – The Great Impulse Purchase


So that is it, my story on how I acquired a Norton. I don’t plan to do a speedy restoration. I fully expect that this will take a few years to help ease the finances of the project.
 
Welcome. I'll try to refrain from information overload. Why no serial number? No clue. The tube coming out of the left side with that clamp on it means it is an early engine. I forget when they stopped the timed breather, but that is what it is. Rest of it, I'll let the experts go for it. Why do people love Norton's so much. Don't know, I do too and girls love them. Best of luck with it, hope you get what you want out of it.

Dave
69S
 
Congratulations. It might be possible to fix that pinched frame tube. Or, you might focus on other more satisfying things such as getting the old girl running. Once she's up and about you can better assess and decide what to do and when to do it. It's usually best to get it running before you tear it down - helps you make a list of things to do and more importantly, things that you do not need to do.

Excuse me if I'm telling you things you already know but I'd start with a survey of the fluids, drain the lubricants into a clean container so you can really see what's in there (look for water in particular - if you find it anywhere, then a dissassembly likely is required), or not in there, drain the engine sump - on the '71 there's a big plug underneath, flush the oil tank, flush & de-rust the fuel tank, drain and re-fill the primary. Before you even sit on it, take fine steel wool to the fork tubes to remove any rust pitts/chrome edges that will cut a fork seal; do the same to the shock shafts to save their seals too - getting between the springs will be a challenge. Be careful with that plastic oil line to the head - sometimes you just look at them and they break. Obviously the carbs will need a cleaning, do a search on here for how to make certain that the low speed circuits are actually cleared. Gotta go.
 
Welcome to the insanity, Mark. You're in good company here.

Your bike may have had a replacement crankcase somewhere in it's life. The replacement cases and frames from Norton back when they were still making the bikes didn't have serial numbers on them. I bought one of each back in the '70s to repair a bike I had crashed, and had to get an assigned VIN number from the local (California) highway patrol in order to register it.

Ken
 
I have just done the exact same thing as you ,I dont regret it at all ! .I have what appears to be a 71 frame with a motor out of another model in it .These norton guys on the forum are a fountain of knowledge when it comes to tracking down info and I would be lost without everyones help .Good luck with the resto ... nortyboy.
 
I to would try and repair the frame to a good engineer it shouldn't be a problem the bike looks quite ariginal , the engine and gearbox numbers should match the frame though the engine will start with 20M3S-, more photos may help
Al
 
ClutchOut said:
1971 Roadster – The Great Impulse Purchase


The frame purchased has a VIN of 300044, which puts it as an 850 Commando. I have read about the difference in the frontend rake and the better stability of the 850 vs. the earlier years. If this will not work, I will begin a search for a new frame.


It looks as if you got triple trees/yokes with the frame?
If they have "ANG" cast into their undersides, then they are the correct type to use with a 3xxxxx 850 frame, so there shouldn't be any problems at all if you used those parts.
 
L.A.B. said:
ClutchOut said:
1971 Roadster – The Great Impulse Purchase


The frame purchased has a VIN of 300044, which puts it as an 850 Commando. I have read about the difference in the frontend rake and the better stability of the 850 vs. the earlier years. If this will not work, I will begin a search for a new frame.


It looks as if you got triple trees/yokes with the frame?
If they have "ANG" cast into their undersides, then they are the correct type to use with a 3xxxxx 850 frame, so there shouldn't be any problems at all if you used those parts.

no rear shock gussets,that would more likly make it a 750 frame ???
 
splatt said:
no rear shock gussets,that would more likly make it a 750 frame ???

No, they were not fitted until around the time the 850 Mk2 models were introduced, and 300044 is a very early 850 Mk1 frame.
 
Hi Clutchout and welcome to the forum. Looks like you have a great work area.

I'm wondering if this in fact an 850 frame. It could be the angle the photo was taken from but I thought - starting in 73 the 850 frames had a longer gusset to support the rear frame loop.

ClutchOut said:

Just the inside gussets were longer. These gussets are where the top of the rear shocks mount. Here's a shot of the extended gussets on the inside of the frame. If your frame doesn't have these it may just be the correct one for your bike.

1971 Roadster – The Great Impulse Purchase


Sorry Splat, I missed the last line of your post and when I started typing I hadn't seen your post yet L.A.B. I'll leave my post up for the picture of the gussets in question.
 
An 850 Mk1/1A or Mk2/2A (gusset) frame would normally have its part number 064140 (Mk1/1A?) or 065404 (Mk2/2A) stamped in small digits on the front face of the L/H fuel tank bracket?
 
Welcome to the forum.

One can never pay too much for a norton, if it is what you wanted and you had the money to spend.

Now get on with it.
 
You are to be commended on your purchase and project. Anyone who saves one of these historic vehicles from the boneyard should be rewarded and when you take it down the blvd. next spring, you will be. We are honored to have you.
Did the 300xxx frame come with a title? Depending on your local laws, you may have to juggle things about. Plenty of time to sort that, I guess.
 
coreyl said:
One can buy blocks in various sizes for removing dents from bicycle (and motorcycle?) frames. See: http://www.bicycletool.com/search.aspx?find=block

Good Luck!
I agree. I believe the integrity of the frame is still intact and most likely true.
The $125 you spent on that frame from PA can easily be doubled on sliezbay.
Unless wifey gives you her check book, moving any redundant part to get what you need is essencial. These things (Norton restoration) can be icebergs and at this point you cannot see under water to gather scope for the investment ahead.
 
Hi Mark Wellcome to our addiction What part of Wisconsin are you from? Im from Gresham about 50 miles west of Green Bay Go Pack feel free to email me any time I have 3 NORTONs Be glad to help if I can Phil
 
Thanks for the warm welcome and all of the great replies. The fun for me is going to be in the journey that I am about to embark on.

lcrken said:
...Your bike may have had a replacement crankcase somewhere in it's life. The replacement cases and frames from Norton back when they were still making the bikes didn't have serial numbers on them.

Thanks for the info, this helps to explain the lack of engine numbers. The frame and gearbox numbers all match, just missing the engine number to complete the series.

possm said:
I to would try and repair the frame ...

There were several recommendations to try and repair the frame. It is hard to see in the photo, but the frame tubes are crimped by about 0.25". I guess it would be possible for a skilled machinist to cut and repair. Are there any other recommended repairs. The bicycle blocks mentioned are also a possibility.

L.A.B. said:
It looks as if you got triple trees/yokes with the frame? If they have "ANG" cast into their undersides, then they are the correct type to use with a 3xxxxx 850 frame...

Yes the triple trees did come with the 300xxx 850 frame and have the markings identified.

1971 Roadster – The Great Impulse Purchase


RennieK said:
It could be the angle the photo was taken from but I thought - starting in 73 the 850 frames had a longer gusset to support the rear frame loop.

I have attached a better photo of the rear shock gusset. It is an exact match to the 750 frame.

1971 Roadster – The Great Impulse Purchase


grandpaul said:
One can never pay too much for a norton, if it is what you wanted and you had the money to spend.
Now get on with it.

Good advice grandpaul. I have enjoyed your posts and rebuild threads. Your knowledge has been very helpful even before I lift the first wrench.

pvisseriii said:
Did the 300xxx frame come with a title?

No title on the 300xxx frame. I don't think it will be a big deal in WI since I have a title for the bike, but I will probably find out the hard way with my luck sometimes.

pvisseriii said:
These things (Norton restoration) can be icebergs and at this point you cannot see under water to gather scope for the investment ahead.

I probably should go ahead and name the bike "Titanic".

Norton-Villier said:
What part of Wisconsin are you from? Im from Gresham about 50 miles west of Green Bay Go Pack feel free to email me any time I have 3 NORTONs Be glad to help if I can Phil

Thanks Phil, I am located in La Crosse. I will take you up on the offer once I get deeper into the project.
 
My bike has similar, slightly less conspicuous dents in the down tubes probably due to crash bars installed too tightly at some time in the past. I do not notice any ill effects on handling or frame alignment associated with these dents and I am hoping they don't weaken the frame appreciably. In fact, I was wondering if trying to remove them might weaken the frame more than leaving them alone. Does anyone have any experience with this? I may try to repair my frame when I do a complete rebuild but that won't be anytime soon.
 
After all of the recommendations, I have decided that I am going to try and restore the original frame. First order of business is to track down some of of the special tools so I can get the engine and gearbox out of the frame. The gearbox does need some work, so this exercise will give me the opportunity to go in deep and rebuild.

First I needed the clutch spring compression tool. I decided to fabricate one from a 3" pvc pipe cap. I probably spent more in fuel looking for a fully threaded 1/2" UNF bolt than it would have cost to purchase the tool new. There were none to be found in town so I opted for some threaded rod to get the job done.

1971 Roadster – The Great Impulse Purchase


It worked like a champ!

Next, I decided to remove the engine sprocket. A quick trip to AutoZone yielded a harmonic balancer puller set from their Loan-a-Tool program. I picked up a couple of 4" x 5/16" UNF bolts to get the job done. Success was indicated by a loud pop as it gave loose with some a little persuasion by a brass hammer. I was expecting much worse after reading some of the struggles other members have had.

1971 Roadster – The Great Impulse Purchase


I was also able to talk to the powder coater today. I asked if they would do a motorcycle and he asked what kind. I said it was a Norton and his response was "Yes, we like British bikes". He lead me over to the corner to see a '56 BSA Chopper in progress and a Triumph frame. That was good enough for me. A quoted price of $175 to blast and coat for the frame plus a little extra for the misc bits. Just need to find some time so I can get to that point.
 
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