1971 Moto Guzzi Nuovo Falcone

Joined
Jun 30, 2012
Messages
9,488
Country flag
Rohan, It would be possible to build a classic racer look alike from any laydown Guzzi and get it to go quick. Our guys get pushrod ES2s and Matchless singles going as quick as most manxs. The OHC f factor only affects the maximum usable revs , so as with Commandos you build the motor to develop torque, and thus pull rather than rev. The magnesium bits help, but on the old days the guys didn't have titanium to replace the steel bits. DOHC motors have a slight advantage in that the cams are independently variable so timings are more easily optimised. Four valves per cylinder usually gives a ten per cent lift in horse power. Twin cylinder bikes have an advantage beca use they have twice as many valves (higher BMEP), however twice as many things to keep reliable. You can still build a fast competitve bike out of a pushrod single. A two valve Jawa speedway engine on dope in a featherbed will beat most manxs.
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2010
Messages
8,216
You seem to have this fixation of taking slow old bikes and wanting to make them fast ?!?
And then complain when they let you down - repeatedly ?!

Sure, you could hotrod anything.
But when the shafts and castings and gears are too small to take big power, they all need to be improved.
And cast iron flywheels need to made from better stuff, pistons forged not cast, frames strengthened,
ignitions and carb improved, better brakes, suspension, damping, etc etc etc.

A big part of getting laydown guzzis to breathe also involves that long straight 'downswept' inlet tract.
Most of the road bikes have a little curved manifold there - tricky to improve that, bigtime..
Guzzi have been through this, before ? Its called decades of racing improves the breed ??

This is my fav-o-rite Guzzi racer.
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k50 ... 785e02.jpg
Viewed from the business side, its dripping with magnesium and bevel drives.
Ducati fans recoil when they see pics of this, its obvious where Duc got the GT750 concept from ??
 
Joined
Jun 30, 2012
Messages
9,488
Country flag
I don't have a fixation about destroying old bikes which should be restored, by racing them. Guzzi Falcones were about as common in Europe a nd Africa as M21 BSAs were in Eng land. I've seen one of those with number plates. All I'm saying is it would be possible t o use an ex-army or ex-police Falcone from the forties and create a close replica of a thirties racer.
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2010
Messages
8,216
acotrel said:
and create a close replica of a .
I don't know about that 'close replica' bit ?
Its tough to make something look ohc or dohc out of a pushrod engine, let alone go like one. !!

Why not just restore them as they are - and ride them and enjoy them ??
Not everyone with a bit of motoring history wants it to look like a race replica....
 
Joined
Nov 11, 2008
Messages
805
Country flag
acotrel said:
When I was a kid a car dealer in Melbourne had a Veetwin 500cc Guzzi racer in his showroom window.
Was that W.H.Lowe in Balwyn by any chance Acotrel? He was a manufacturer of electrical switch gear but for some strange reason held several Italian concessions including Ferrari and M.V.Augusta. We lived up the other end of Balwyn and would always stop for a drool on the way back from the cinema.
 
Joined
Jun 30, 2012
Messages
9,488
Country flag
The bike was in a car showroom on the South Melbourne side of the bridge where the train goes under Commercial Road at Armadale. I suspect it might have been owned by Lance DIxon. It was there for about three years in the window, however I think it must have been sold back to Europe, it was very rare and valuable - the Vtwin 500 Gambalunga. The only one I've ever seen. I saw the 56 model 350 single at Phillip Island about ten years ago , you'd give your leftie for it. That sort of stuff was completely unobtainable for duds like us in the old days. Lance DIxon was (is?) a millionaire, and owned a lot of rare collectable vehicles. I'd be amazed if that 500 Guzzi is still in Australia.
 
Joined
Jun 30, 2012
Messages
9,488
Country flag
'Why not just restore them as they are - and ride them and enjoy them ??
Not everyone with a bit of motoring history wants it to look like a race replica....'

I totally agree. I'm not suggesting that connverting road bikes to racers should be done, I'm pointing out it CAN be done. Not all (or many?) Guzzi racers in the 30s were OHC, and many were simply uprated road bikes in the 30s with no magnesium, and certainly no titanium. Building a racer out of an ex WD Falcone is something I might think about doing if I wanted a really nice classic racer, however I'd probably just restore the bike and get club rego for it, and ride it on Sundays.
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2010
Messages
8,216
'Why not just restore them as they are - and ride them and enjoy them ??
Not everyone with a bit of motoring history wants it to look like a race replica....'
acotrel said:
'
I totally agree. I'm not suggesting that connverting road bikes to racers should be done, I'm pointing out it CAN be done.
<snip>,
however I'd probably just restore the bike and get club rego for it, and ride it on Sundays.
At least there is something we can agree on.
Although getting something WD (with the performance of an M20) into anything raceworthy would be a mighty effort. !!

BTW, the Gambalunga was a postwar ohv single cylinder 'racer'.
The v-twin was a 'Bicylindrica', a genuine prewar ohc out-and-out racer, winner of that 1935 IoM TT - and dusted off after the war ?
10+ more bhp at least, for decades. And a few thou rpm more than any pushrod effort.
Wonder where they hid it during the war ?

BTW2, you can tell any older Guzzi that has been "raceified" - its been painted red ?!
Guzzi Green was Guzzis usual racing color, or bare aluminium in the dustbin etc eras. ?
 
Joined
Jun 30, 2012
Messages
9,488
Country flag
I thought Gree n was only used on post-war Guzzis racers ?

You might like this - I didn't :

 
Joined
Aug 26, 2010
Messages
8,216
Aha, a candidate for the mythical BSA Green Star, maybe ?!
This is about what your 'racified' WD Guzzi would look like, effect wise ??
And performance wise too ?

Is there a class for these to race in - probably be fun.
Didn't someone in UK seriously rework one - to get 100 mph out of it !!!
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2010
Messages
8,216
To drag this back onto the subject of Nuovo Falcones, I thought this was a neat effort.
Strange combo of colors, but seems to work.
No vast and downdraft inlet tract though, so its not going to frighten goldstars....

 
Joined
Jun 30, 2012
Messages
9,488
Country flag
It is a very nice bike. The main thing about anything like that is what the bottom end is like. The top end is easily fixed and even if it is not an OHC engine, that doesn't mean it cannot go fast. Aermacchi 350s were a much better racer than a 350 manx.
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2010
Messages
8,216
acotrel said:
IThe top end is easily fixed and even if it is not an OHC engine, that doesn't mean it cannot go fast.
If it comes from the factory as a slow old slogger, someone has to do some serious work somewhere to make it into something different !?!

Weren't Falcones famous for being able to idle (reliably) down to 200 rpm, or less..
That tells you something...
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2010
Messages
8,216
acotrel said:
Aermacchi 350s were a much better racer than a 350 manx.
This is not surprising - the Aermacchi 350's that Harley raced were 2 strokes, and twins at that.....
Rather different era too ??
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2010
Messages
8,216
Aermacchi flat singles ohv did race somewhere back there, and were mildly competitive even.

But they didn't start racing in International competition (1964 ?) until the Manx had already gone out of production, and weren't fast until some years after that.
 
Joined
Jun 30, 2012
Messages
9,488
Country flag
I don't think the Linto was ever successful, there was a weakness in the link which joined the two engines. Many years ago one of our guys - Dave Stanley brought a Linto to Melbourne - it went back to the UK, but it wasn't all bad. In our historic racing the Aermacchi 350 runs in a later period than the 350 manx or 7Rs which is a pity because they are all the same old garbage. A friend of mine had a genuine 350 aermacchi racer, I rode it once and I couldn't see a 350 manx beating it. It was extremely light and nimble. I think that if the Linto stayed together it would absolutely blitz any 500cc Manx.
The nuovo falcone might be an old slogger, but the basics are there , and the forties models were probably not much different from the racers of the preceding ten years. I doubt there would have been many OHC guzzi racers prior to 1940. Years ago I spoke to an Italian gent who had family back home , about finding an ex-army or police falcone , there must have been a huge number of them made around the time of WW2 ? I wonder how many are still in North Africa ?

I was looking at a restored Falcone at t he Broadford Bonanza last week, they are a very nice thing, I'd love to own one, however I would never make a racer out of it, and not because it might be impossible. Our historic racing has shagged a lot of great bikes which should have been restored and used on public roads on Sundays.
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2010
Messages
8,216
acotrel said:
The nuovo falcone might be an old slogger, but the basics are there , and the forties models were probably not much different from the racers of the preceding ten years.
.
You keep saying this - without any knowledge of the depth of Guzzi manufacturing prewar ?
The Falcone is not much different to the ohv sloggers prewar may be a more accurate statement ?
The ohv sports models in the 1920s were faster.
And that was before Guzzi went ohc with their sports models and racers.

acotrel said:
I doubt there would have been many OHC guzzi racers prior to 1940. Years ago I spoke to an Italian gent who had family back home , about finding an ex-army or police falcone , there must have been a huge number of them made around the time of WW2 ? I wonder how many are still in North Africa ?
.
Guzzi made a large range of a variety of ohc race bikes prior to WW2 - some of them supercharged, some of them 4 valve, and the best of them that wide-angle v-twin. - that won an IoM 500cc TT. Anyone who raced a sports model ohv Guzzi prewar wasn't serious, they lacked hp compared to the ohc versions.

Old early falcones are probably like WW2 BMWs in Africa these days - all highly sought after, and all gone !!

BTW, this is the military Alce.
Take off the spare handlebars, and go racing ??? Really ??
13 hp @ 4000 rpm, all iron engine. (top end).
Might beat an M20. might....

 
Joined
Jun 29, 2010
Messages
222
Country flag
Over here, Henk de Vries (not related to 50cc Jan) still is succesfull with his Nuovo racer.
Weighs some 120 kg down from 200, does 48hp, 200 kph. The over-robust engine was trimmed to the max. Flywheel skimmed from steel 9 kg to alloy 3 kg, casing walls thinned, gears provided with alloy centers, lighter valve gear.
Him and his brother Minus raced two of them, sadly in 2005 Minus suffered a heart attack at the age of 65, in the harness so to say, it was during a race.
Below Henk leading on his machine:



Minus' machine:



No single but triple guzzi porn:

 
Joined
Aug 26, 2010
Messages
8,216
slimslowslider said:
No single but triple guzzi porn:
Now that is getting interesting.
One more cylinder than the 'porcupine'.

48 hp is double what a Nuovo put out - big effort.
Should do more than 200 kays ?

If that carb manifold was turned around, or made to be better downdraft like the factory racers, it would breathe better ?
Tough to imagine the power doubled with it like that....
 
Top