The real cost of lockdowns….

One of the reasons I don't believe lockdowns work is the fact that you can have a household where only one occupant gets it
 
baz said:
Sorry to hear you have it again
I've had it twice now
I was vaccinated at the time of the first lot but not the second
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Thanks Baz but I don’t see it as much of a problem anymore, just feckin’ inconvenient… especially at Christmas… any other time would have been a great excuse for a few days off work and ‘isolating’ in the shed !!
 
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All this citing of studies based on short term data is short sited, also known as cherry picking. We are only now entering the stage where final conclusions can be made country by country based on deaths outside the normal mean over the years before, during and after Covid.

Covid did kill but so did lockdowns, even Sweden's non lockdown also killed from non covid diseases including suicides, delayed treatments for cancer, people not responding to symptoms and not requesting tests etc. In the UK the waiting lists for treatments including critical surgery are still at record levels and the cause of premature deaths.

Who got the balance right is still to be determined, and Sweden's non lockdown was still a lockdown but advisory instead of mandated. Self preservation was already kicking in in the UK before the first lockdown as shown in the data after the event.
 
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Fast Eddie said:
Thanks Baz but I don’t see it as much of a problem anymore, just feckin’ inconvenient… especially at Christmas… any other time would have been a great excuse for a few days off work and ‘isolating’ in the shed !!
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I'd rather have COVID than a cold for sure 👍
 
baz said:
One of the reasons I don't believe lockdowns work is the fact that you can have a household where only one occupant gets it
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This time, two in this household got it and two didn’t. We continued to mix freely.

To the best of our knowledge my Missus has never had it… Too bleedin’ stubborn !
 
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kommando said:
All this citing of studies based on short term data is short sited, also known as cherry picking. We are only now entering the stage where final conclusions can be made country by country based on deaths outside the normal mean over the years before, during and after Covid.

Covid did kill but so did lockdowns, even Sweden's non lockdown also killed from non covid diseases including suicides, delayed treatments for cancer, people not responding to symptoms and not requesting tests etc.

Who got the balance right is still to be determined, and Sweden's non lockdown was still a lockdown but advisory instead of mandated. Self preservation was already kicking in in the UK before the first lockdown as shown in the data after the event.
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I think you hit the nail succinctly on the head
 
marshg246 said:
Best I can tell, lockdowns didn't actually protect people. In my opinion, it was a pandemic, it was wise to protect yourself, there was a real chance of dying but staying cooped up may have been worse than going about your life while being careful.

All time COVID Per capita rates:
Washington DC, infect: .25, death: .002
In Fairfax County, Virginia, infect: .23, death: .001

In Washington, DC heavy lockdown

In Fairfax County, Virginia, there was no actual lockdown, but continual talk of staying 6 feet apart and wearing masks. That effectively locked down restaurants but they were allowed to operate. Grocery and hardware stores put arrows on the aisle floors to tell people which way to walk to enable 6 feet apart but in general those stores were not considered very dangerous since they have high ceilings and a lot of ventilation. Some stores limited the number of customers inside at once, but that wasn't the Govt. Virginia does not have pubs/bars (restaurants may have a "bar") so there was no issue there. In Northern Virginia, the traffic went from terrible to bad - no ghost town here. Some things that were done remain today and they are not bad. For instance, in the pharmacy I use, there are hanging plastic shields so if you cough or sneeze it does not get on the worker but there is a good-sized opening below and between each so they do not impede transactions. Also, the pharmacy staff still wears masks - they deal with sick people all the time so it's good for them and their customers regardless of COVID.

The funniest thing I saw: A guy riding a bike with double masks and the full cover helmet and gloves in the middle of summer.
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There were plenty of people over here wearing masks in cars on their own!!! What the hell was that about 🤣
 
I have been self employed for many years now - small carpentry business with no employees. The lockdowns really had no effect on my work beyond the supply issues that became the new normal and it still has not returned to pre CoVid times.
As I had/have no employees I made/make no contributions to unemployment insurance yet during peak CoVid I could have stayed home and collected something on the order of $ 650 a week - never contributed a penny towards this and no reimbursement necessary . I didn’t do it for two reasons - I didn’t need it and wanted to leave it for those who did and since I believed it to be unsustainable I just saw it as being wrong .
During the peak of the epidemic my wife was the director of therapy in a nursing home . As director she rarely had to treat patients but as employees started to drop it became necessary for her to treat . Risky at her age but by following protocol she never contracted CoVid.
Our younger daughter is a therapist as well and at the time she worked in a large nursing home . At times she was hands on with over 50 positive patients a week . Again , by following protocol she never got sick . Just lucky? Maybe .
Because of my wife and daughter I was able to get in on the first round of vaccinations when they became available. I never got any booster shots and never got sick . My wife has had all the boosters and has since retired and has tested positive once - daughter became a mother and out of the nursing home environment also tested positive , as have both my grandchildren under two years old. Go figure.
 
The best example of the death of logic that I saw during covid was when walking the dogs out in a large park, sports field type area, ie a very large open space.

I came an across a bloke wearing a face mask…

and face visor over the top…

and surgical gloves…

Walking outside…

Alone…
 
Fast Eddie said:
The best example of the death of logic that I saw during covid was when walking the dogs out in a large park, sports field type area, ie a very large open space.

I came an across a bloke wearing a face mask…

and face visor over the top…

and surgical gloves…

Walking outside…

Alone…
Click to expand...
A mate of mine nipped into a supermarket to grab something
He's a car sprayer
He'd left his white paper boiler suit on
He had a bloke telling him "that's a bit over the top innit mate"
My mate said"what for spraying paint "
 
baz said:
A mate of mine nipped into a supermarket to grab something
He's a car sprayer
He'd left his white paper boiler suit on
He had a bloke telling him "that's a bit over the top innit mate"
My mate said"what for spraying paint "
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It is very important.... to quickly read the situation, and respond in kind.
"Haven't you heard? The Andromeda Strain, it's HERE, this is IT!!"
 
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Fast Eddie said:
I love how the overriding point of that article is that ‘critics’ are ‘questioning‘ !

Critics always question… that’s what they do. Note how it doesn’t say ‘scientists have proven‘ !

There are countless arguments / articles / reports to both contest and support the Swedish ‘experiment’.

Do you guys realise that the Swedish ‘experiment’ was not an experiment at all? The Swedish approach was the internationally recognised and agreed response. A response that had been agreed and refined over decades by virologists. However, as soon as a virus came along, all other countries panicked and ‘experimented’ !

But Sweden did not do nothing. Sweden took many measures, it just did not enforce long blanket lock downs.

It’s very interesting to see that this thread follows the general pattern of debate in other arenas. As soon as someone questions the length, depth, methodology of lock downs used, people start saying “so your saying we should have done nothing”?

No I’m not, not at all. But the lock downs in their entirety were disproportionate. Our government lost site of the purpose of the lock downs, they weren’t able to handle the fact that the virus was (unfortunately) here and that they couldn’t stop it.

We started out correctly here IMO, the first lock down was correct, the intent was to ‘flatten the curve’. The lock down was supposed to be a short term containment WHILST we learnt what to do, how to treat it, and put other measures in place. But we lost sight of reality and somehow thought that lockdowns were a panacea, and were without issues, etc. and both of these were very, very wrong.
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Here is a Scientific look at Norway and Sweden rather than an article. I thought the article covered the facts nicely and is a much shorter easier read than this study.
The overriding fact is that Sweden experienced a death rate 10 times that of Norway during the first wave. That should tell you that Sweden's initial response to the Pandemic was incorrect.
We had a fairly strong response here in BC and it generally worked. There were a lot of rules, some of them unnecessary in hindsight, but overall it was handled well.
Reading thru this thread reminds me of that time. It's very clear that people do not like to be told what to do, even if it is in their best interests!

The very best example of that has to be Sturgis which went ahead even with all of the data based warnings. It became
the greatest Superspreader event ever.
You aren't telling me what to do! Covid loves that mentality.

 
worntorn said:
I was surprised when Tegnall admitted that he had screwed up. I suppose he is a Scientist and he could not ignore the facts.

nationalpost.com

Top epidemiologist admits he got Sweden's COVID-19 strategy wrong

At 43 deaths per 100,000, Sweden's mortality rate is among the highest globally and far exceeds that of neighbouring Denmark and Norway
nationalpost.com nationalpost.com
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Well he said they’d do things differently… he purposely did not say they would lock down like the rest “probably somewhere between Sweden and the rest of the world” was his conclusion.

Thats a good honest statement in my book, made by someone genuinely willing to review and learn.

In contrast, here in the U.K. we currently have a lockdown ‘enquiry‘ that seems obsessed with whether or not we should have locked down one or two weeks earlier !

I thought this was a good observation of Swedens situation:

“Anders Tegnell did explain what went wrong. They did not protect the nursing homes well enough. Out of 4,542 deaths 88% were over 70. You keep kids in school and you maintain the workforce. They did that and there were exactly 198 deaths under the age of 60 or 4% of deaths or 0.0001935% of the Swedish population.

This is the lesson of why you do not lockdown. This affects the elderly and immune weakened. That is who you quarantine, not the school age with statistically 0% mortality or the workforce with close to 0% mortality”.

In other words, we SHOULD do intelligent things... and avoid unintelligent blanket lock downs
 
seattle##gs said:
Careful...if the news you saw it on was fox then it's highly suspect. They live for creating fake outrage and dividing the country.
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Here we go, my information source is better than your information source.

Careful...
About what source to believe and which to point at and berate... What source is viable and what source is to be doubted... My source is reliable and yours is phony... What source is for provocation and what source is believable... But because ones information source is off because your opinion says so?
I don't think so...

Advocating one information source over another these days is the same as advocating one's opinion over another...the only commonality is that, like specific body parts, everybody has one.

Authoritative "experts" and their views continue to abound on how the Covid issue was or was not handled and how facts/fallacy was conveyed and who profited and who scammed and who was played and who got it straight.
One can find all the information required to validate their opinion online or on television or on social muckitup....
This debate will continue to be never ending, certain pandemic policies were good ones and others went over like a turd in a hot tub.
Hopefully, maybe, some of the obvious results will be respected next time around...and manmade or naturally occurring there will be a next time.


The real cost of lockdowns….
 
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Fast Eddie said:
The best example of the death of logic that I saw during covid was when walking the dogs out in a large park, sports field type area, ie a very large open space.

I came an across a bloke wearing a face mask…

and face visor over the top…

and surgical gloves…

Walking outside…

Alone…
Click to expand...

Maybe his dog curled off particularly noxious ones?
 
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