RGM pre-Commando belt clutch experiment for P11

Don't overdo the Dremel grinding on the inside of the clutch dome. I tried to get away with not ordering the 880 belt and make the 890 belt work with the drum in the proper belt adjustment position. Turned a small section of the outer cover into tin foil. What a maroon. It never was a perfect cover anyway.

Pinot Gris and vodka spritzer coming up.

I made a 1/8" full perimeter spacer for the primary. It's two pieces since I didn't have a sheet of 1/8" aluminum long enough laying around. Test fit: I can spin the clutch inside the primary with the case buttoned up using the 890mm length belt adjusted via the 90 degree twist method. There is very little clearance though. I think I'll go ahead and put the clutch together, align the shafts a little better, make the tabs to hold the top gearbox mounting stud, start it, and see if it comes unglued. However, I do plan to order the 880mm belt, since there will be plenty of room for the clutch with the shorter belt when using the spacer.

If you look closely at the second image you can see the shiny end of the clutch push rod inside the hole in the center of the clutch dome. Obviously, the clutch is nowhere near centered in the clutch dome. The shorter 880 belt will I hope move it 1/4" closer to the center.



Spacer needs a little manual file work to drop the top edge down. Other than that, it works. There are days when I wish I hand a belt sander.

I cleared a brain fart out last night and remembered that I had moved the rear of the primary inbound a couple of millimeters for the NEB wet clutch experiment. I'm going to move the rear of the primary back out a couple of millimeters to theoretically give enough room for drum expansion with the longer 890 length belt. Still I wouldn't suggest using the longer 890 belt on a P11. I think the 880 is a safer length to work with as well as a full perimeter spacer.

With a 1/8" spacer the dowels in the inner primary just barely protrude enough to align the outer primary. If you need a thicker spacer the dowels should be lengthened to accommodate. I may add 1/8" to the two dowels.

My rotor does not need to be spaced inbound with the addition of the 1/8" spacer. The engine pully lines up exactly where the single row sprocket and spacer lined up on the crank shaft without the outer pulley guard. With the pulley guard installed the rotor ends up out where it should be inside the stator with the added 1/8" spacer. It might be noteworthy, but I do not have the stock crank shaft in this motor, so measurements related to rotor position may vary slightly with the stock P11 crank.

Comic relief

My version of an exotic tool. 5/16" x 3" scrap aluminum with two 5/16-24 bolts for pulling the RGM engine pulley. Works perfectly during the test fit stage. Not sure how well it will work once I put the real torque spec on the pulley, but I expect it will probably do the job.

I can't believe how intimidated I was by that diaphragm spring when using the spring compressor. If I'd known how wimpy the spring actually is, I would have been a little further along than I am.

Things I didn't understand because I've never installed a Commando clutch is how far the spring had to be compressed basically backwards to get it to set right in the drum. I thought I was going to ruin it. Why the heck do I have to crank so far on the compressor I thought to myself for far too long. Once I got the hang of it all, I found it easy to work with. Also thought the RGM pre-Commando clutch rod seal was not letting the spring go into place initially. I was very wrong about that. It worked perfectly with the RGM spring and spring center. Although I have no idea how well the seal works. It is a long clutch nut with a nice screw in adjustable tight fitting viton seal gizmo in the center of the nut. I sealed the threads of the adjustable section with some mega torque gasket maker.

Here's what the primary with spacer and clutch look like pre startup to check belt run. Also a little intimidated about starting it up. The big Keihins and the engine in general require a bit of warm up time, so the belt might come flying off when holding the idle up when cold. I have a few things to finish up before starting it.



I'm not hearing anything from RGM about well anything anymore, so I'm going to get an 20AT10 880 belt with a max temp spec of 180F over here. Kind of low on the temp for a motorcycle primary and probably a food processing equipment belt, but I want to see where the clutch ends up with it installed. Will order the right belt eventually.

Interesting to follow. A popular bit of bling for a Ducati dry clutch is a clear cover. You could graft something that provides more clearance on the ruined (?) cover and show it off! Get out the JB weld and some sturdy clear acrylic . Or some mesh to enjoy the aroma. Just being silly, good luck to ya.

The outer cover isn't total trash yet. Very difficult to see the spot I'm referring to externally unless laying on the ground and knowing where it is. I did JB weld the interior over the grinding error. I actually thought about cutting a 1x3" vent there and pinning a screen over it but didn't. This clutch runs really close to the face of the inner cover, and extremely close to the lower 3rd back of the clutch dome. It is going to get warm inside the primary if I use the long belt. I'll wait until I get the shorter belt to do any long rides.

I do like working on a theoretically dry clutch. They are nice when new and clean.

For the performance minded this clutch is a little on the heavy side because of a thick steel (both steels and frictions) clutch pack used. I do not see a lighter weight clutch pack on the RGM site for this clutch. Maybe I did not look hard enough though.

Outer cover:

The P11 gearbox is not like a Commando gearbox as far as adjusters go. It has an adjuster on the drive side more or less, but it is offset and on the inside of the mount about 1/3rd of the way in on the stud that goes through the upper lug mount. It is shown in one of the images up above. I made a timing side lock tab for the current position of the gearbox with the longer belt. I can easily drill another hole in it for a shorter belt, or just make a new one. Don't need no stinking Commando gearbox adjuster.

Simple and it does the job.

Been fun in a mad science sort of way installing the clutch with a belt that is too long and ignoring most of the reasonable suggestions. Skip the long belt part is my suggestion.

Still have not started it. Too many things needed attention for the final fit with the long belt. I might actually fire it up tomorrow. It is calling to me.

A shorter 880 length belt might get here next week. An engine pulley with more teeth would also work, but I'm working with what comes in the RGM kit. Most of the work I did in the primary would not be necessary with a shorter belt or larger diameter engine pulley.

The RGM pre-Commando clutch is not a bolt on for hybrid owners. For guys and gals with deeper pockets the CNW Commando belt clutch would probably fit because it uses a narrow engine pulley and drum and a 21mm wide 8mm pitch belt. You would need to find is a shorter belt of the quality Matt sells (good luck with that), although you could make his belt work, but the clutch drum would be way off center in the clutch dome. You would also need to put a Commando mainshaft in your pre-Commando gearbox. The fun never ends.

For more belt clutch in a hybrid madness, search Access Norton using "N15 Bob Newby clutch" AgentX did a write up.

I'm waiting on the shorter 88 tooth belt I ordered from a manufacturer here in the states to arrive. Seems sort of senseless to start it up with the longer belt even tough I'm fairly certain it would work with the modifications I've made. Better to work with a belt closer to centered in the clutch dome. Once I get all the setup figured out with the longer belt, I'll get a belt with the proper temperature specification. Probably said all that already.

kernel65 said:

I run the same kit in my Atlas and 99 with no issues. If you end up not using the RGM supplied belt, please let me know.

Scott

Click to expand...

Unfortunately, RGM is not responding at all to 3 emails regarding their mistake sending me the wrong belt for the kit. The 32AT10 980 older Synchroflex belt shown below is what they sent instead of a 20AT10 980 Synchroflex Gen3 belt. This is a sad mistake.



Can you use the wider belt?

32mm is too wide for the 30mm wide engine pulley that came with the clutch kit I received. Not sure what they were thinking sending me that belt. (I can't insert what I really think about this here. I think the forum software would refuse to let me post it. lol)

Schwany said:

Unfortunately, RGM is not responding at all to 3 emails regarding their mistake sending me the wrong belt for the kit. The 32AT10 980 older Synchroflex belt shown below is what they sent instead of a 20AT10 980 Synchroflex Gen3 belt. This is a sad mistake.

Can you use the wider belt?

32mm is too wide for the 30mm wide engine pulley that came with the clutch kit I received. Not sure what they were thinking sending me that belt. (I can't insert what I really think about this here. I think the forum software would refuse to let me post it. lol)

Click to expand...

It's alright... You can use words like 'India' now
Not sure about 'bunch of tossers' though??

EstuaryBoy said:

It's alright... You can use words like 'India' now
Not sure about 'bunch of tossers' though??

Click to expand...

I'd have to google tossers' to know if it was appropriate for the RGM crew. My guess is they (or he) don't like being told they made a mistake and probably didn't believe the other problems caused by poor product packaging, which I paid a premium for. They reserve the right to refuse service to anyone that does not kiss their collective butt apparently.

Point here really is if ordering this RGM pre-Commando kit don't count on getting the belt mentioned in the description, or having it replaced with the right part. A 32mm wide belt is just wrong period.

Schwany said:

Unfortunately, RGM is not responding at all to 3 emails regarding their mistake sending me the wrong belt for the kit. The 32AT10 980 older Synchroflex belt shown below is what they sent instead of a 20AT10 980 Synchroflex Gen3 belt. This is a sad mistake.

Can you use the wider belt?

32mm is too wide for the 30mm wide engine pulley that came with the clutch kit I received. Not sure what they were thinking sending me that belt. (I can't insert what I really think about this here. I think the forum software would refuse to let me post it. lol)

Click to expand...

I cannot, but thanks. Several years ago I had a problem with their bushing size for the crank pulley and rotor stack (not even close) and something else not being right in the kit. I luckily was working with Frank at Clubman and he made it right. Had to go to a machinist to get the right bushing made. That and their response at the time was disappointing.

Schwany said:

Unfortunately, RGM is not responding at all to 3 emails regarding their mistake sending me the wrong belt for the kit. The 32AT10 980 older Synchroflex belt shown below is what they sent instead of a 20AT10 980 Synchroflex Gen3 belt. This is a sad mistake.

Can you use the wider belt?

32mm is too wide for the 30mm wide engine pulley that came with the clutch kit I received. Not sure what they were thinking sending me that belt. (I can't insert what I really think about this here. I think the forum software would refuse to let me post it. lol)

Click to expand...

I suspect RGM are in a bit of bother at the moment. I believe Anna has departed for another company and was one of their stalwarts.
I have been having problems getting any sense from them so have written them off for now.
Hopefully they will recover as they were a strong competitor of AN (and others).
Cheers

robs ss said:

I suspect RGM are in a bit of bother at the moment. I believe Anna has departed for another company and was one of their stalwarts.
I have been having problems getting any sense from them so have written them off for now.
Hopefully they will recover as they were a strong competitor of AN (and others).
Cheers

Click to expand...

Too bad about Anna, she made ordering from across the pond really smooth.

kernel65 said:

I cannot, but thanks. Several years ago I had a problem with their bushing size for the crank pulley and rotor stack (not even close) and something else not being right in the kit. I luckily was working with Frank at Clubman and he made it right. Had to go to a machinist to get the right bushing made. That and their response at the time was disappointing.

Click to expand...

Yep figured you wanted the narrower belt.

The crank pulley in this version of the kit is one piece alloy and works well with regard to positioning the P11 rotor inside the stator in the outer primary. Because I am using a very minimal thickness full perimeter spacer, I did not have to move the stator inward toward the engine. The rotor sits back a little but in the long ago past when I put the spacer in the wrong position it sat back nearly 1/2" and still worked.

None of it is a show stopper. Everything fits like it should on the shafts. Only thing holding me up currently is waiting for the shorter 880 length belt. Delivery date keeps moving out. RGM shipped out everything immediately. In that respect RGM has the best service ever. I had the kit at my door in the Seattle area in 4 days

880 length is a usable length belt for the P11.

Figured I'd take a pic before I start the motor and turn the belt into a wire and urethane bird's nest.



I have a feeling it might get a little too warm inside the primary for this belt. It is rated at 180F max and probably not for a long period of time at that temperature.

The 10AT20 880 polyurethane belt came from a company in New Jersey called PolyBelt run by Polytech Design Inc. I thought they made belts, but the belt is made in France. It is not as thick as the Synchronflex belt above the teeth. I bought it because I wanted to see if the 880 length was good and I could get it fairly quickly and it was not that expensive. I didn't want to pay just shy of $100US (belt and shipping) for the Synchroflex 880 belt from Bolton just for a test fit.

I'm confident the light drab green belt is not designed to be used where I'm using it. Now I know the length is good, so I can get a better belt. That said I'll still take a short ride around the block with it. Living on the edge.

Going to start it and see where the belt ends up and what happens to it.

A man of your resources should be able to vent a couple of these, perhaps??

I could do dat, but I've always wondered how they get tightened down once a screen is there instead of a slot.