Pazon wire..what gauge?

[seattle##gs]

Occasionally I have to deal with wire this small, more each year so I need to buy a supply. About $14 for 5 rolls of the common colors. Also who sells bullet connectors that small?

 

[marshg246]

Welcome to British Wiring - classic British car wiring harnesses and components

 

[maylar]

Note that British wiring is sized by the number of "strands". I find that having 9 and 14 strand sized bullets covers Norton wiring well. Invest in the crimper tool to save melting insulation from soldering.

 

[concours]

Occasionally I have to deal with wire this small, more each year so I need to buy a supply. About $14 for 5 rolls of the common colors. Also who sells bullet connectors that small?

Are we to assume you meant to ask about the wires for the pickup? 20-24ga?
More information is needed about what you need.

 

[L.A.B.]

Note that British wiring is sized by the number of "strands".

Pazon isn't exactly "British" . British wiring was rated by a combination of the cross-sectional area and number of strands (of 32 SWG for British vehicles).

The international wiring standard (at least outside the US) has been 'metric' for many years and uses the cross-sectional area rating in square mm.

Checking left-over sections of Pazon wire, one is:

24/0.20 (24 strands of 0.20mm copper): Marked "RFT BS 6231 BASEG 600/1000V 0.75mm² HEAT RESISTING 90ºC H05V2-K CE" and
"E254552 W 19 AWG 600V ???? AWM 1015 105ºC...etc".

BS6231 Cable | Tri-Rated Cable | Panel Wiring Cable - Cleveland Cable Company

Cable Specification: Tri-Rated Cable - Tri Rated Cable - TriRated Cable - Panel Wiring Cable is a high temperature, flame retardant cable designed for use in instrumentation panels, motor starters or power switch gear. It features plain annealed stranded circular copper conductors and a PVC...

www.clevelandcable.com

Also, 24/0.20, 0.75mm² thin wall and the pickup wire appears to be 16/0.20 0.5mm² (16 strands of 0.20mm) thin wall.

Standard PVC cable strands are normally 0.30mm diameter (9/0.30, 14/0.30, 28/0.30, etc.) 14/0.30mm is approximately equivalent to the original 14/32 SWG wiring mainly used on our British bikes.

Single Core Standard PVC Cable

www.vehiclewiringproducts.co.uk

Edit:
32 SWG (British Standard Wire Gauge) is 0.0108"/0.2743mm.

 

[maylar]

Pazon isn't exactly "British" . British wiring was rated by a combination of the cross-sectional area and number of strands (of 32 SWG for British vehicles).

Yes, and Lucas bullets are sized by the number of strands they can accommodate. 14 strands are equivalent to an 18 AWG which is common wiring on a Norton. The 9 strand size is probably appropriate for the pickup wires.

 

[L.A.B.]

Yes, and Lucas bullets are sized by the number of strands they can accommodate.

But that is 9/14 strands of 32 SWG or 0.30mm. The Pazon wires, however, are 16 and 24 strands of 0.20mm.
Bullets are often sized by mm².
https://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/product/27/category/6

 

[marshg246]

The OP wanted to know about bullets. BritishWiring.com sells 9-strand wire and bullets for that wire, 14-strand wire and bullets for that wire, and 28-strand wire and bullets for that wire. Their 14-strand wire appears to match the wire in Norton, Triumph, and BSA motorcycles - the wire itself, not the insulation. Their 14-strand wire is a close match for what we call 18 ga in the US. I have no idea what standards are involved and although I have all the sizes of bullets I don't know the actual hole size. If the Pazon wire is smaller than the wire used on Nortons, then he needs 9-strand bullets. If it is approximately the same size, he needs 14-strand bullets.

 

[L.A.B.]

The OP wanted to know about bullets.

The title of the thread is "Pazon wire..what gauge?" and the OP also asked, "Also who sells bullet connectors that small?"

9-strand wire and bullets for that wire, 14-strand wire and bullets for that wire, and 28-strand wire and bullets for that wire. Their 14-strand wire appears to match the wire in Norton, Triumph, and BSA motorcycles - the wire itself, not the insulation.

Regardless of the insulation, the Pazon wire in question is neither 9 or 14-strand and is 0.20mm not 0.30mm per strand so it's not the standard 14/32 SWG size found on British bikes or the metric equivalent 14/0.30mm 1.0 mm² that British Wiring (and others) sell.
All dimensions I've quoted previously are for the wire and does not include the insulation.

 

[marshg246]

The title of the thread is "Pazon wire..what gauge?" and the OP also asked, "Also who sells bullet connectors that small?"




Regardless of the insulation, the Pazon wire in question is neither 9 or 14-strand and is 0.20mm not 0.30mm per strand so it's not the standard 14/32 SWG size found on British bikes or the metric equivalent 14/0.30mm 1.0 mm² that British Wiring (and others) sell.
All dimensions I've quoted previously are for the wire and does not include the insulation.

Might as well teach us the current carrying capacity of each stand of wire in each standard - wouldn't want simple answers to simple questions

Sorry Les, just had to.

I have no Pazon and am still not clear if the OP considers the standard wiring "that small" or if the Pazon wiring is noticeably smaller than the 60s/70s "standard wiring". I could have measured the hole size in the various bullets and told him that but I doubt it would be useful - wouldn't be to me.

Also, the current carrying capacity of the "standard" wire and the 14-strand wiring that British Wiring sells are similar but the standard wire has much thicker insulation - I assume that is due to 50+ years of insulation improvement or maybe cheapness. At and rate, I'm happy with the products I buy from British Wiring even though they are proud of them. I make a new wiring harness for every bike I build and for most brought to me for wiring problems and I stand behind my work - wouldn't dare use poor wire.

Ok, you can have the last word - tell us where my thinking is wrong and I promise I'll just take it and not reply

 

[Time Warp]

The three smallest wires are going to the trigger plate. (screw terminals)

The other wires (heavier) are going to the coil or ground/earth (Ring terminal preferred ? or spade which the Pazon kits come with)
(and optional tachometer wire)

Where would you use bullets ? (Let alone more wire ?)
There are very nice 3 and 4 terminal mini weather proof connector blocks designed for small gauge wire if a cut in was wanted.

 

[L.A.B.]

Might as well teach us the current carrying capacity of each stand of wire in each standard - wouldn't want simple answers to simple questions

It's clear that you haven't understood what I've said.

I have no Pazon and am still not clear if the OP considers the standard wiring "that small..."

The OP wasn't asking about "standard wiring".

...or if the Pazon wiring is noticeably smaller than the 60s/70s "standard wiring".

Yes, it is smaller "gauge" than "standard" wire, also doesn't have the same strand count and strand diameter as "standard" (9-14/0.30mm) and that's the point I've been trying but apparently failing to make. If you had a Pazon kit then the difference in gauge to standard would be apparent, especially the pickup wires.

Also, the current carrying capacity of the "standard" wire and the 14-strand wiring that British Wiring sells are similar but the standard wire has much thicker insulation - I assume that is due to 50+ years of insulation improvement or maybe cheapness. At and rate, I'm happy with the products I buy from British Wiring even though they are proud of them. I make a new wiring harness for every bike I build and for most brought to me for wiring problems and I stand behind my work - wouldn't dare use poor wire.

There you go again, talking about "standard wire" which the wire in the Pazon kit...isn't.
Edit:
TW also makes the valid point that bullets shouldn't really be needed with the Pazon kit unless a repair is necessary as it comes with connectors and sufficient lengths of wire to fit without additional wire joints.

 

[Craig]

We are all getting older and crotchety ! I wouldn’t want it any other way , long as no hard feelings …. Sorry I really have nothing else to add ….

 

[seattle##gs]

Thanks for all the detailed info. I pulled apart some wire from ELECTREX (please no more warnings about the ignition, it is what I have been given and the owner does not feel like scrapping his new $300 electrical system without giving it a good go). It is a British company and working with British terms and measurements. I do not have the Pazon trigger wire handy ... the usual black/white and black/yellow wire but very small O.D. I would like to obtain 2 rolls of this wire. Also, using modern switches for headlights, turn signals, tail light etc all use this very fine wire so connecting up to old British wiring is not so easy to do. My primary method is to strip back the insulation approx one inch. Then folding the copper wire over a couple of times to achieve 4x the original wire diameter and use a japanese bullet. Now there is a mismatch with the insulated section but it still holds. I use a bit of marine grade shrink tube to make it more secure. I would have the same problem using spade connectors. There must be a range of connectors and tools to use for this very small wire but I don't know them. I've always dealt with wire around 16 - 18 gauge.

I prefer japanese bullets over the British crimping bullets though I do have a supply of them in 3 sizes.
It is still hard for me to believe that such a tiny wire can carry so much amperage but I'll take their word for it. However for 90% of things I use 18 gauge wire, PVC non-thinwall. Where thinwall really works is connecting the alternator to the podtronics, the battery to the key switch, and the grounding system. It can carry way more amps than is necessary, is no bigger than 18gauge, and gives a good margin of safety.

 

[L.A.B.]

It is a British company and working with British terms and measurements. I do not have the Pazon trigger wire handy ... the usual black/white and black/yellow wire but very small O.D. I would like to obtain 2 rolls of this wire.

Not "British" but what is now the (metric) standard for cable where the size is the cross-sectional area (in mm²) of the conductor.
https://www.12voltplanet.co.uk/cable-sizing-selection.html

The black/white and black/yellow Pazon pickup wires measure up as 16/0.20mm, 0.5mm², 11.0A thin wall (tinned) so slightly thinner than US 20G.

Cable > Thin Wall Cable - Thin Wall Cable - Auto Electric Supplies Website

Thin wall low voltage cable, suitable for use in automotive and marine applications. Consists of con...

www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk

https://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/cms/files/awg_to_mm2_conversion_data.pdf

 

[seattle##gs]

Time to revive this topic. Today I am dealing with electronic smiths gauges and trying to connect them to 18 gauge wire in the stock Norton harness. I will call the wires from the tach and speedo "micro wires" , I'm guessing 24 or 26 gauge. I want to make connections such as bullet connectors but perhaps there is a better terminal? It seems all the modern electronics use this "micro wire" so there must be a source wire, small crimpers, and tiny terminals just for the small stuff. I am well set up for 16 gauge - 20 gauge automotive type wiring but this is a whole range smaller.

 

[marshg246]

There are standard size bullets drilled for the smaller wire: http://www.britishwiring.com/Crimping-Bullet-for-9-Strand-PVC-Wire-p/c309.htm

 

[SteveA]

I use pozilocks on my Pazon wiring, all of it. Red ones.

 

[SteveA]

BTW, we do all know Pazon ignition systems are made in New Zealand don't we?

 

[L.A.B.]

BTW, we do all know Pazon ignition systems are made in New Zealand don't we?

I'm reasonably confident we do, however, the recent question was about connecting Smiths electronic gauges.