Question about Brexit

kommando said:
She sailed to US but due to crew changes etc if you include the ones needed to do the sailing back of the yacht to its starting point there were at least 5 transatlantic flights needed to support the journey, plus various pics show a powered support vessel in the background.
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Blimey I never really knew Columbus had such a hard time of it sailing across the Atlantic!
 
freddie1105 said:
fair play. my mistake. i'd take sailing.... as opposed to steaming.
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imagine the power consumed just to make a rivet for that ship. finding the ore. building the machinery to mine and transport, refining it. oops there another factory built! where do you draw the line?
 
any way. engine is out and stripped on the bench I put in the dining room and the missus is over the moon. now the real work starts!
 
freddie1105 said:
could shoulder is usually on the menu then!
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Oooh! We have all had that cold shoulder, some of us were given frozen rations for a month, that's when you sneak off for a hot curry! - and then her indoors complains about you stinking the bog out and using up all the loo paper - you can't win!!
 
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What is it about membership of the EU which has upset the Brits so much that they want to leave ? Do they have the same wages stagnation and wealth inequality that we have in Australia. Or is it immigration ? Sometimes what is not being said is more important than what IS being said. If possible, I would like a simple list of complaints. In Australia we are not members of the EU, but there is the same neoliberal globalisation affecting our lives. The trouble is that most of us are much less politically aware than the Brits.
 
acotrel said:
What is it about membership of the EU which has upset the Brits so much that they want to leave ? Do they have the same wages stagnation and wealth inequality that we have in Australia. Or is it immigration ? Sometimes what is not being said is more important than what IS being said. If possible, I would like a simple list of complaints. In Australia we are not members of the EU, but there is the same neoliberal globalisation affecting our lives. The trouble is that most of us are much less politically aware than the Brits.
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Be careful Al,
The reasons are varied and different for many who voted leave.
Could be a long list!
 
acotrel said:
What is it about membership of the EU which has upset the Brits so much that they want to leave ? Do they have the same wages stagnation and wealth inequality that we have in Australia. Or is it immigration ? Sometimes what is not being said is more important than what IS being said. If possible, I would like a simple list of complaints. In Australia we are not members of the EU, but there is the same neoliberal globalisation affecting our lives. The trouble is that most of us are much less politically aware than the Brits.
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How long have you got. . . . .
 
When I asked somebody that question the other day, they simply said 'racism and ignorance'. Is that the truth ? I don't like neoliberal globalism, but it is with us and I cannot see any way of going backwards. It has become too deeply entrenched.
 
acotrel said:
When I asked somebody that question the other day, they simply said 'racism and ignorance'. Is that the truth ? I don't like neoliberal globalism, but it is with us and I cannot see any way of going backwards. It has become too deeply entrenched.
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Was that someone who lives in England UK?
 
acotrel said:
When I asked somebody that question the other day, they simply said 'racism and ignorance'. Is that the truth ? I don't like neoliberal globalism, but it is with us and I cannot see any way of going backwards. It has become too deeply entrenched.
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Al
That is a lazy and easy response which groups everyone who voted to leave as Xenophobic. There were many reasons why people voted out;
To gain more control over our laws without the EU overturning decisions made by the courts in the UK
To gain more control over the finances which are currently paid to the EU
Concerns about unregulated immigration from the EU via freedom of movement
So that the UK does not have to accept every EU directive.....
And so on

There will be good counter examples as to why these reasons are misguided and why the EU does not do as stated.
As I said earlier, people voted out for many different reasons, the majority of which were neither racist nor ignorant.
 
A bit different from Enoch Powell’s “Rivers of Blood” speech in 1968, Enoch Powell and Tony Benn were right on Europe – it was a great deception

“and that our own elected Parliament had no right to subordinate itself in perpetuity to an unelected supranational body, which could impose on us laws not in our national interest.”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment...right-on-Europe-it-was-a-great-deception.html
 
I wouldn't try and simplify the reasons for Brexit.

There is a lot of 'smoke and mirrors' by all sides but I share the Bennite view on democracy and power.
"I have tried to define democracy, and worked out five criteria. If you meet a powerful person, ask them five questions: What power have you got? Where did you get it from? In whose interest do you exercise it? To whom are you accountable? How could we get rid of you?
Because if you can’t get rid of the people who have power over you they don’t have to listen to you..."
https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Tony_Benn

The EU does not fit well with this view.

One of the issues mentioned as a reason for leaving the EU is the decisions made by the European Court of Human Rights in often overturning verdicts from UK courts. The European Court of Human Rights has nothing to do with the EU and is the court that decides on cases related to the Council of Europe's European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR). The Council of Europe was founded by the Treaty of London in 1949 with the UK as a founder member. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Europe
Afaik there are no plans for the UK to leave the Council of Europe.

I would say that not many politicians made this distinction during campaigning for the referendum or election!

I wouldn't want to call anyone ignorant but it is complicated.

Hoping for the best

Andy
 
When we joined it was the European Common Market (ECM) and we knew where the goalposts were, now it’s the EU and the goalposts are over there . . . . .

The 2016 referendum was a varied result, depending on which part of the country you lived, for example Boston voted 72% leave due to ?????????? , whereas Cambridge voted 71% remain the two about 100 miles apart.
I know who my local MP is but, I still do not know who my Euro MP, Now was,

Best quote I heard was that the EU run without giving the public any democratically

They tend to run it like an Oligarchy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oligarchy
 

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