Sturdier triple clamps

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As you all know the stock upper triple clamp uses a tapered fit versus pinched clamping. I haven't seen Norton upgrades so far using pinch bolts, especially on modified bikes. As the owner of many vintage motorcycles I find this odd. 35mm forks with one solid clamp per leg flex a bit.
I swapped in a Betor fork assembly on my Triumph T140 and saw a significant improvement.
My Moto Guzzi has pinched upper and lower clamps using 35mm forks and it too twists far less than the stock Norton or Triumph.

Anyone running a pinch clamp on the top? I have seen the upside down fork setups but I more interested in the lansdowne kit and keeping the stock fork diameter.
 
Have you ever looked at a R100RS top clamp? It's a piece of sheet metal --
The forces on the top clamp are pretty much forward and aft movement, the bottom clamp handles all up and down forces.
 
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so if minnovation has strait bore yokes, whose tubes and fork bottoms would you use? ( to look original?) and obviously cost is a factor.....

I guess it depends what you’re building, if it’s a racer, I’d go with new Cerriani replicas. If you’re wanting to use stock Norton sliders, I don’t know what stanchions folk use to be honest, but someone will I guess...
 
I believe it would only be an issue if something else was a problem. Set up properly, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the way a Norton handles. If there is a problem, fix what you've got, don't go searching for an answer to a non existent problem.
 
I think that the tapered end of the tube that is drawn into the top "triple clamp" (old dirt tracker) by the top bolt makes a solid mount. I am not convinced that pinch bolts would be an improvement.
Ain't broke, don't fix it.
 
Mick Hemmings supplied a set of fabricated triple clamps for his Northton chassis kit that used pinch bolt upper yokes, with standard Norton fork tubes. The tapered part just stuck up above the yoke. You can just seem them in this photo.

Sturdier triple clamps


Ken
 
those yokes are nice and shiny, but i have come to accept that my norton(s) are what they are, there is stuff i want to improve (IE front brake) but otherwise it rides fine, and there are fixes for the roadholder to make them better, so sihiy triple clamps may be nice but since i'm not racing, it is beyond the budget...
 
As others have said; I also don’t believe converting to pinch bolt top yoke will add any tangible benefit to a Norton through increased stiffness.
I think racers do so primarily to facilities greater and quicker adjustment of front end ride height.
 
I am struggling to see any advantage of a fully straight stanchion over a top taper, a taper is used in engineering to increase the grip between 2 parts, hence the difficulty in getting the engine sprocket off the crank and its use in the locating of crankpins on roller big ends.
 
I am struggling to see any advantage of a fully straight stanchion over a top taper, a taper is used in engineering to increase the grip between 2 parts, hence the difficulty in getting the engine sprocket off the crank and its use in the locating of crankpins on roller big ends.
Beat me to it.
Snowmobile crankshaft comes to mind...
10 lb. CVT clutch is mounted on the tapered end of the crankshaft, single M12 bolt holding it on. NO KEY. Reliably holds 175hp without moving.
 
Good conversation!
Have you ever looked at a R100RS top clamp? It's a piece of sheet metal --
The forces on the top clamp are pretty much forward and aft movement, the bottom clamp handles all up and down forces.
And it flexes. people who ride "gummikews", German for rubber cow. People who liked to go fast typically added a pinched top triple. CC products and San Jose among others sold them. I have one on my 74 R90. Definite improvement.

I am struggling to see any advantage of a fully straight stanchion over a top taper, a taper is used in engineering to increase the grip between 2 parts, hence the difficulty in getting the engine sprocket off the crank and its use in the locating of crankpins on roller big ends.
The problem I see in this design is the taper bolt is not set up to properly tighten the tube top. It has an O-ring to seal the the tube. The fork twists fore and aft and sideways. A typical taper fit does not have an o-ring included. Crank pins have to be pressed in- That's a different scenario with the crank always turning in one direction and much tighter fit.

Set up properly, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the way a Norton handles. If there is a problem, fix what you've got, don't go searching for an answer to a non existent problem.
That's the same thing you hear from the BMW guys.

Yet there are problems with the Roadholders-topping and bottoming out for example. They are an old design
First introduced in 1946 and then modified in 1953, Roadholder fork construction stayed relatively constant until the end of Norton production in the mid-1970s.
Motorcycle classics, How to rebuild Norton forks. I understand the Lansdowne kit really upgrades the fork action.

The reason I ask the question is because I have modified three of my motorcycles with 35 mm forks and noticed a positive reduction of flex riding fast and in rougher conditions.
-BMW R90- CC Products triple clamp-has a taper that clamps from the side and top, fork brace also very common modification. I had upgraded the brakes and noticed significant twisting when applied hard especially in a corner. Significantly better after installation
-Triumph T140-I rebuilt the forks and rode around with it. Harsh jarring ride didn't feel that stable when cornering. I decided to put a set of Betor forks and triples on the front end. Cost me $50 for the set at a swap meet. Lightened the front end, stiffer side to side movement. With this setup I was able to install cartridge emulators and get a cushy yet firmer ride. Note, I like to ride the Triumph fast on rough curvy roads common around western NY.
-CZ400- I race vintage motocross. This too has taper top triple clamps. When I first got the bike I wasn't very impressed with the handling. Motocross is rough terrain, certainly more extreme than road riding. I machined and welded pinch points below the top taper creating a clamp similar to the BMW. What a difference!

Try this test- stand in front of you bike and grab the front wheel between your knees. Twist the handlebars from left to right. My stock bikes would typically deflect an inch either direction. Try that with a more modern bike -much less deflection.
 
[QU
I am struggling to see any advantage of a fully straight stanchion over a top taper, a taper is used in engineering to increase the grip between 2 parts, hence the difficulty in getting the engine sprocket off the crank and its use in the locating of crankpins on roller big ends.

One of the main problems with the taper (apart from the o-ring mentioned) is that you cannot move the tubes up through the clamp to change the steering geometry. Not many people will do this however, but if you want to experiment with different setups, this is a considerable limitation.
 
[QU


One of the main problems with the taper (apart from the o-ring mentioned) is that you cannot move the tubes up through the clamp to change the steering geometry. Not many people will do this however, but if you want to experiment with different setups, this is a considerable limitation.

I should have said strength of clamped vs taper, the clamp does give you adjustment but only if the forks are long enough.
 
Try this test- stand in front of you bike and grab the front wheel between your knees. Twist the handlebars from left to right. My stock bikes would typically deflect an inch either direction. Try that with a more modern bike -much less deflection.

Ultimately, you will only find out by trying. But I don’t think you’ll see the results you describe. You can do the ‘twist between your knees’ thing very easily on T140s and Tridents yet they have pinch bolt top yokes. In fact, even with a super duper Hyde fork brace fitted they STILL do it!

You’re quite right about modern bikes, but there’s nothing comparable, everything is stiffer, bigger, stronger.
 
35mm forks with one solid clamp per leg flex a bit.
I swapped in a Betor fork assembly on my Triumph T140 and saw a significant improvement.
My Moto Guzzi has pinched upper and lower clamps using 35mm forks and it too twists far less than the stock Norton or Triumph.

In your case, twisting has nothing to do with the yoke / upper triple tree (clamp). Twisting is due to biaxial bending of fork tubes (L+R).
The parameters are: Fork tube length from lower triple clamp to wheel axis; Modulus of fork tube material (normally around 200 GPa); Inner diameter of fork tube; Outer diameter of fork tube.
My thinking is, if you experienced a "signaficant improvement" by fitting a Betor fork (which I don't know anything about), then there are either geometry differences between the fork tubes as noted, or a weakness in the bearing support of the triple tree in the headstock. If you send me the respective fork tube data, I will calculate the bending stiffnessess of both.

-Knut
 
You can do the ‘twist between your knees’ thing very easily on T140s and Tridents yet they have pinch bolt top yokes
None I have seen-72 T120 and 79 T140 both have taper tops.
Knut, I understand the rest of the measurements- how do I find the Modulus?Healing up from rotator cuff surgery so it may take a little bit to get the measurements

I still think the upper clamp makes a difference-proportionally less than the axle stiffness and lower clamp but still increases overall stiffness
 
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