X rings and other things .

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Here is an oddity from long ago.
Ducati 916 SP, factory 117 hp (iirc) made 114hp on a NZ dyno, the stock o-ring chain swapped for a NON o-ring and it made 117 hp.
I better stick to that IWIS chain for the hp win.
 
Jim Comstock couldn't find any measureable difference between sealed and unsealed chain with his Commando on the dyno.
The manufacturers do claim that the x ring is lower resistance than the old O ring.

Glen
 
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I converted my T140 bonnie to a 520 vx ring setup some years ago, and don't think I've ever adjusted it? Getting a front sprocket was a major pain (rear is a BSA item) but I stumbled upon an old engineering business in rural Shropshire called John Hemming Engineering. John was one of the two partners in "Supersprox" which I'm sure many UK guys will remember from the Seventies as a dominant force in the sprocket business . He is on his own churning out sprockets on ancient broaching machines in the kind of "organised chaos" that typified many workshops of a previous generation.
He had a suitable Triumph sprocket "off the shelf" (I had taken a 530 Emgo one for machining). Given his trade now is mostly with the Scott owners club and the like, I'm sure he could help with any Norton requirement, his number comes up on Google. Having said all that, when the 530 on my commando needs changing, it'll be to a 530 VX.
 
RGM stock 5/8" x 1/4" (520) front & rear sprockets for all types of Norton twins. £23 for the gearbox & £69 for the rear. I've just last week converted my early 750 Commando. Total cost including DID X ring chain was around £180. I would never go back to a non sealed chain because on our relatively low powered bikes sealed types are almost maintainance free.
 
Hi, a simple question from someone who does not understand the difference between X, O or VX chain.
I drive with the original set up. My Reinold chain is ready for replacement.
Can I convert to any of your above chains without having to do anything more, and if so,which one do you recommend.
My bike is an MK3
Vidar
 
worntorn said:
We have had some difficulty with early sprocket wear with the 520 setup on those bikes. 20,000 on a chain is a long way, just haven't found sprockets in 520 that will last that long. That's why I'm interested in getting back to a 530 setup but with the new narrow sealed chain.


Glen
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The best way to get excellent chain mileage from an X or O ring is to also use a Scottoiler, I used them on a high mileage FJ1200 and a VFR750, really effective for both sprocket and chain life.

Then I bought a Pan European! ;)
 
Hi Vidar.
Yes, a DID 530vx chain will go right on.
With the MK3, even the old style, wider type sealed chains fit without changing anything.
The 530vx will have extra clearance.
Do use a rivet type masterlink though.
They are better, particularly with sealed chain.
The tool for installing the rivet masterlink is $10 on eBay.
There are better tools out there for a lot more money. The better ones include a built in rivet punch.
The ten dollar tool just gets the side plate on for you.
Then you must flare the rivet to the same size as the pin heads on the rest of the chain.
This is quite easy, after getting the side plate on, just place the fixed side down on a steel plate then use a small punch or nail set to mushroom the top end of the rivet.
It only takes a few thou of expansion to get there.

Glen

vidar hjelm johansen said:
Hi, a simple question from someone who does not understand the difference between X, O or VX chain.
I drive with the original set up. My Reinold chain is ready for replacement.
Can I convert to any of your above chains without having to do anything more, and if so,which one do you recommend.
My bike is an MK3
Vidar
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Glen.
Thanks for the good info. I forgot to ask how many links there should be when I have the standard set up.
It would have been nice to not have to adjust the length.
Vidar
 
The MK3 riders handbook shows 100 links then in brackets (99 with 20 tooth gearbox sprocket)
 
SteveA said:
The best way to get excellent chain mileage from an X or O ring is to also use a Scottoiler, I used them on a high mileage FJ1200 and a VFR750, really effective for both sprocket and chain life.

Then I bought a Pan European! ;)
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Yes, those chain Oilers seem to work very well. A club friend swears by them, however he has given up on maintaining a clean rear wheel , in fact the whole back of the bike stays pretty grimy.
Ive been using chain wax, which stays on the chain, provided you let it set overnight after applying. Each of those chains lasted 20,000 miles or so, which might be all the miles I have left in me!
We ran anodized aluminium rear sprockets for awhile (Vincent). They lasted until the anodized layer was gone at 10,000 miles, then poof, they were done.
Not a bad setup, two rears, one hardened front sprocket a sealed chain and a can of chain wax gets you 20,000 miles down the road with no adjustments and not much rim cleaning.
Now we have 520 sprockets made from 4140 then hardened.
They should last at least 20,000.
I suspect that the same in 530 width would last 40,000 or two sealed chains.
That will definitely see me out!

Glen
 
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I installed the CNW 520 chain mod back in '10 or '11, can't recall exactly. But haven't had to adjust the chain yet. :) Mileage is a bit over 18k. My specific lubrication method is .... well, I haven't lubricated it yet so I don't know! ;)
 
MexicoMike said:
I installed the CNW 520 chain mod back in '10 or '11, can't recall exactly. But haven't had to adjust the chain yet. :) Mileage is a bit over 18k. My specific lubrication method is .... well, I haven't lubricated it yet so I don't know! ;)
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Reminds me of friend, rider of modern bikes now sadly no longer with us, who took his bike in for a service. The workshop asked him "when did you last lube your chain", no no says he "when did you..."
 
I clean with WD-40, then apply Sikoline. I do this once a month or every 200 miles. When I used to do all day distance I'd bring the chemicals and do it daily.

Best
 
worntorn said:
The narrow x ring 530 are a relatively new thing.
Until fairly recently it was necessary to switch to 520 in order to get the sealed chain to fit.
That's what I have on the Rapide that was switched over to sealed chain about ten years ago. I've worn out two sealed chains and one unsealed chain with that bike, still on the same top end and still good on leakdown.
On that bike, the sealed chains last about 20,000 miles for me. The first was an oring, the second was an xring that was supposed to be superior in every way. It lasted about the same as the Oring, 20,000 miles or so then you start adjusting which means it's done, the seals are poking out.

We have had some difficulty with early sprocket wear with the 520 setup on those bikes. 20,000 on a chain is a long way, just haven't found sprockets in 520 that will last that long. That's why I'm interested in getting back to a 530 setup but with the new narrow sealed chain.
I've got narrow 530x on the other Rapide, just installed, will monitor wear.
The Thruxton R came with x ring chain and alloy sprockets.
It's in 525 size and looks to be cooked at 22,000 kms, about 14,000 miles. Lots of torque on that chain!

A Norton top end should do 40,000 miles I would guess?
Hope so, mine is at 26,000 now and still tests well on leakdown.

Glen
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Hi Glen,
I see different models of DID 530 vx chains online. Do you have a model # or designation that is specific to the "newer" narrow version?

Thanks,
Ed
 
Hi Ed

I believe there is only one 530vx although you might find some with plain black sideplates and others that have gold side plates. I like the gold side plates as they are very rust resistant.
The VX2 is the 520 chain, that is 5/8x1/4". That won't fit on the stock sprockets.
The 530VX is 5/8x3/8" and fits the stock sprockets.
It is the new narrow type.
If you have a MK3, even the older style wide sealed chain will fit.

Glen
 
Time Warp said. "I better stick to that IWIS chain for the hp win."

And its a lot cheaper when you can still use your original sprockets, and don't need those special tools to fit and remove a joining link.

BTW. The commando was designed for 110B chain. 530 is the American oversize substitute which can hit the inner primary.


Dereck
 
I am using original sprockets with the 530vx. The special rivet link tool is $10 on eBay. The chain doesn't touch on anything it shouldn't.
The claim of power loss to sealed chain has been debunked.
1 By Jim Comstock on dyno.
2. By GP racers who want every bhp and choose xring chain over standard chain.
3. By me with a coasting contest between two of my bikes. After coasting for a quarter of mile from identical gps speed, they both stopped at the same point on the roadway, +-5 feet! One bike is fitted with 530vx, the other (had) standard chain.

Glen
 
kerinorton said:
Time Warp said. "I better stick to that IWIS chain for the hp win."

And its a lot cheaper when you can still use your original sprockets, and don't need those special tools to fit and remove a joining link.

BTW. The commando was designed for 110B chain. 530 is the American oversize substitute which can hit the inner primary.


Dereck
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I see a 530VX is around AU$189 here, lucky I brought my RK EXCEL rivet tool back with me on the last trip to Old Zealand.
Maybe the 850 will get a VX.
Riveting on a low HP bike like a Commando is a little bit overkill all the same.

RK.jpg

As far as HP I can only quote what was seen in a on the spot swap from O-ring to non O-ring chain on the same bike on the same high end dyno in the same short time period.
I guess we short have coasted down a hill or checked the internets instead. (LOL)
 
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I suspect that the clip type xring masterlink does not retain its seals as well as the rivet type.
The rivet type is needed to maintain case clearance. The clip type are quite wide in 530 sealed and probably will contact things.
 
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