Worthwhile "upgrades" - incl belt drive/E-start

The am considering some "upgrades" (I put that in quotes because sometimes I have found that "upgrades'...arent!

Anyway the first is the CNW kit to use a 520 x-ring rear chain because I personally believe this is a real UPGRADE to the bike and I'll definitely be springing for this, with a 21 tooth sprocket - mine is 22. This one was recommended to me by a personal friend who puts a TON of mile on his Commando.

But here's the biggy - the e-start from Old Britts. I can still kick-start my bike without any trouble but the e-start would be nice...
I'm concerned about the added weight and the fact that it includes belt drive whether you want it or not. So.. I know that some folks here have belt drive. What do you think? Frankly, I have always looked at it like "what's the point." And I must admit that if I could get OB's e-start without the belt drive I would do so. But maybe I'm missing something re the advantage of belt drive. So I'm interested in input from folks who have it. PLEASE don't hesitate to say it wasn't what you hoped it would be.

Comments on both the rear drive chain change and the e-start thing are most welcome.

belt drive is lighter, less pull on the gearbox, no oil, no maintenance

MexicoMike said:

The am considering some "upgrades" (I put that in quotes because sometimes I have found that "upgrades'...arent!

Anyway the first is the CNW kit to use a 520 x-ring rear chain because I personally believe this is a real UPGRADE to the bike and I'll definitely be springing for this, with a 21 tooth sprocket - mine is 22. This one was recommended to me by a personal friend who puts a TON of mile on his Commando.

But here's the biggy - the e-start from Old Britts. I can still kick-start my bike without any trouble but the e-start would be nice...
I'm concerned about the added weight and the fact that it includes belt drive whether you want it or not. So.. I know that some folks here have belt drive. What do you think? Frankly, I have always looked at it like "what's the point." And I must admit that if I could get OB's e-start without the belt drive I would do so. But maybe I'm missing something re the advantage of belt drive. So I'm interested in input from folks who have it. PLEASE don't hesitate to say it wasn't what you hoped it would be.

Comments on both the rear drive chain change and the e-start thing are most welcome.

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Mike not to diss CNW but you can buy the O ring 520 stuff cheaper from clubman racing. I prefer the DID x ring and it IS A WORT WHILE up grade. on the electric start bob oswald at QPD is less money but uses NON STOCK norton clutch plates. now for the belt drive where do I start on the advantages. I would recommend to look at a overdrive ratio from stock as there is multiple advantages first it will be a LITTLE easier to kick 2 easier on the gearbox as you are putting in less torque 3 a LOT lighter drive system so the harmonics transmitted into the gearbox is easier on gears ( less hammering to the tooth faces ) and easier on the mainshaft without that LARGE flywheel on the end of it 4 you will run a smaller countershaft sprocket so again easier on the gearbox as you have a better mechanical advantage on the output side. 5 a dry primary case so one less place to leak oil. 6 nobody but you will know it as it is a hidden mod.7 with a clutch pushrod seal you will have a truly dry clutch as was intended. but a standard ratio is great also. down side it takes a little time to properly setup.

"Mike not to diss CNW but you can buy the O ring 520 stuff cheaper from clubman racing. "

I would take a good look at the CNW kit and do a real comparison as to what is included compared to cheaper solutions. I suspect that you will find that CNW has thought of everything.

montelatici said:

I would take a good look at the CNW kit and do a real comparison as to what is included compared to cheaper solutions. I suspect that you will find that CNW has thought of everything.

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the parts are nothing special, an early dominator sprocket, a rear drum machined to fit the chain and a DID x ring chain NOT MAGIC.

Plus a sealed double row bearing and a stubby axle machined to fit it. And a vendor who stands behind his products.

Not magic, no, but I bought one from Matt and felt it was worth the price.

BrianK said:

Plus a sealed double row bearing and a stubby axle machined to fit it. And a vendor who stands behind his products.

Not magic, no, but I bought one from Matt and felt it was worth the price.

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a quick comparison of cost. clubman racing has the cost for a DID X ring chain, 520 front sprocket and rear drum to use standard bearing costs $314.00 ( the stock bearing will last at least the chain life without service)

CNW same parts with the added machine work to the drum for the sealed brg and a machined stub axle along with a sealed brg for $519.00

looks like an awfully expensive sealed bearing to me to the tune of $215.00

they also include a gearbox spacer now in the kit...along with the unmentionables, instructions, best customer service, and they back up their products

Sealed bearing from Walridge Motors in original dimensions that doesn't require machining of the stub axle or brake drum/sprocket - $50 ($28 when on sale).

You pay your money and you take your choice.

Thanks for the input. I didn't realize that the belt drive changed the gear ratio in itself. When considering the o-ring chain mod, I saw that CNW's largest sprocket was a 21. That's fine with me, since I have often thought of dropping my 22 to something smaller. I even thought 19 for a while but I think that will result in too much RPM for a stock 850. But it sounds as if considering a belt drive AND the xring change together means that you have to look at both to determine the proper rear sprocket since the belt drive changes the ratio on its own.

As far as where to get it - thanks for the options. I looked at CNW because of the package deal and their reputation. However, I know clubmans is well thought of as well - the only thing I have purchased from them is a pair of aluminum damper tubes and bronze caps for my forks (Fauth Mod but I figured it was easier to just buy some damper tubes with the holes already in the proper position). Old Britts also offers the mod where they machine your old rear drum. I just installed new rear (and front) wheel bearings so I don't really need another new set. I'll do some more research on "where" but it sounds as if they are good options to pursue. The only remaining issue is the Estart.

I sent for some info from Old Britts since their e start incorporates the belt drive. I don't want to buy a belt drive and then find that it has to be changed/modified if I decide to install elec start later. As I said, at the moment I don't have any trouble kicking it over though it is harder with the top-end rebuild/new rings than it was before. E start would be nice but I'm also not crazy about the added weight... What to do, what to do???

Everyone always seems to have sand in their panties when it comes to CNW products. People that buy them never bitch and moan yet people that never buy their product are always the ones standing on a soapbox, thumping their chests about how over priced they are.

Give me a break, it's getting old. While I support Frank at Clubman and buy stuff from him, I have never encountered better service or after sale service than from the boys at CNW. Who else will tell you to call them on a Sunday afternoon and spend an hour on the phone with you talking you through something? My bet is no one.

To the original thread starter, there is only one belt drive to consider and that is a Bob Newby Racing belt drive.

A couple of things to consider, that have been touched on:

1. Final driven (rear wheel) sprocket. If you are stuck with the stock setup, you have to calculate the effective ratio ahead of it (primary ratio plus drive [tranny] sprocket) to come up with your overall ratio of engine RPM to rear wheel speed. If you go with a custom setup or other rear wheel that allows easy gearing changes, you have iced the cake.

2. "Whose belt drive is best" ranks very high on the list of arguments that will never be settled, right there with oil, tires, and anti-sump valves.

3. Running a belt drive with any type of lube in the primary case seems like a bad idea no matter how you look at it. Primary lube is for the PRIMARY CHAIN. No chain, NO LUBE.

MexicoMike said:

So.. I know that some folks here have belt drive. What do you think? Frankly, I have always looked at it like "what's the point."

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Ditto to all the points made in favor for a belt that Bill made. Here are a couple more. First, you get more giddy-up in your get-along. I think the weight savings over the triplex chain and steel basket must be about 6-7lbs. Belts all use alloy baskets. It takes a lot to spin that up. Secondly, with most belts it's either set it and forget it or one adjustment and that's it.
A few days ago I saw a video of Kenny Cummings doing some dyno pulls with his race bike. There was some pretty big harmonics going on with his belt primary on the slack side of the belt run. I imagine that if that were a chain, with its mass, it wouldn't be good for anything in the driveline.

Coco said:

Everyone always seems to have sand in their panties when it comes to CNW products. People that buy them never bitch and moan yet people that never buy their product are always the ones standing on a soapbox, thumping their chests about how over priced they are.

Give me a break, it's getting old. While I support Frank at Clubman and buy stuff from him, I have never encountered better service or after sale service than from the boys at CNW. Who else will tell you to call them on a Sunday afternoon and spend an hour on the phone with you talking you through something? My bet is no one.

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Whoa, easy big fella!! :lol:

All I see here is people presenting options. I'm sure all the vendors mentioned in this thread are reputable (with the possible exception of the hombre that sold MexcoMike his Norton ) and no one is saying NOT to buy CNW. Everyone makes their purchasing decision on what is important to them. Some may not value having Matt available on Sunday afternoon as much as you do.

Hey,

I would give Clubman a call to see what rear sprocket they are offering. I am not saying its of lesser quality but there are some lower quality sprockets available. One is made in India and we did buy one of these to try. The casting material was sub standard and since we wanted to put together a kit that lasted, we opted not to go with this type but rather a top quality unit made in England.

They also mention that this sprocket is available in 'limited quantities'. Better check to see what happens when they run out and you need a replacement.

I would always suggest to go with a new sprocket as opposed to turning an old one down. If you match up a new chain with an old sprocket you will see some pretty quick wear on the chain. They should wear in together to get the most miles out of it.

Just so you see how we come up with the prices. Heres an itemized list.

New rear sprocket 164.00
New stubby axle 45.00
DID X-ring chain 136.95
SKF DBL row sealed bearing 50.95
Front sprocket 43.00
Machining of sprocket and stubby axle 80.00 (turn down teeth, resize bearing cavity and machine stubby axle to fit)

We are also now making and including a front sprocket spacer to move the sprocket out a bit, away from the transmission as it gets a bit close and even makes contact on some machines. It also aids in aligning the chain with the rear sprocket.

So these are the parts included in our kit and I know its all of the highest possible quality. We do of course stand behind it 100% and there are no surprises. I am not saying that there arent other kits available out there but do compare the parts that are included to make sure you get something that will hold up. If there is a substantial difference in price, most of the time that also means a difference in quality.

BTW....we have front sprockets up to 24 tooth at this time. We felt we needed to support those guys running at the Salt Flats!

Thanks

Matt / Colorado Norton Works

Mike
Most belt drive kits will be the same as toe stock ratio so your gearing will stay the same . I mentioned toe overdrive OPTION as just that and the benefits of taking that route and you would have to recalculate what countershaft sprocket to run for the overall final drive ratio.

COCO
I did not diss CNW for PRICE, QUALTY or SERVICE so calm down they have some of the best stuff out there and service second to none. I know there is extra machine work and parts in his kit but IMHO the sealed brg is not worth $205.00 TO ME. his chain,sprocket and drum prices are not that far off from frank's as individual parts. as to your opinion on the best belt drive it is just that OPINION but any belt drive has the chain primary beat hands down. my norvile has been trouble free for 25,000 miles on the same belt

bpatton said:

MexicoMike said:

A few days ago I saw a video of Kenny Cummings doing some dyno pulls with his race bike. There was some pretty big harmonics going on with his belt primary on the slack side of the belt run. I imagine that if that were a chain, with its mass, it wouldn't be good for anything in the driveline.

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you have just proven my point on why the belt is better. norvile claims 4 1/4 pounds lighter than stock so than it a 4 1/2 lighter hammer beating on the gearbox

While I have never bought anything from CNW, I think they are a 1st class vendor, second to none. The old adage, "You get what you pay for", applies. Their expertise alone would probably save many Norton owners money. Now if only I can get a winning lottery ticket, a CNW Norton is on my shopping list.

nothing to brag about, but ten years and 10,000 miles with belt primary, leak free, and DRY clutch!

Although the installation instructions say to have 40mm total slack in the upper belt when cold,
I set mine at around 30mm. Too much slack and the belt until fully warm whips and can slap the
bottom of the primary cover. I think people error on the side of too loose just out of
general principle.

Old Britts has a belt drive kit as well as an E start kit. I sent them a message asking if the belt kit alone is the same belt components used in the e-start kit. I think a really useful option is to be able to do a belt drive first and, sometime in the future, add estart. But I don't want to have to toss the belt drive to install a different belt drive to accommodate the e start. So what they say will have a lot to do with where I would purchase a B drive.

Re the rear chain mod. Matt brought up a point I hadn't thought about. It would be considerably cheaper to do, say, Old Britts conversion as opposed to CNW. But, as I understand it, CNW provides a new rear sprocket/brake drum, Old Britts machines the drum you send in and returns it to you. This is fine if the rear sprocket is not worn to any extent but if it is, the worn teeth will reduce the chain life. A close look at my rear sprocket is in order...

I have purchased a few items from CNW and have been very pleased - trispark ignition (worth every penny), Brembo master cyl (ditto), and their handlebar switchgear (Honda, I think) and magura clutch lever to match the lever on the M-cylinder. I totally agree about their willingness to talk on the phone to help you sort out whatever. Probably 90% of my Norton parts have been through Old Britts - also superb folks to deal with. I'd hate to think about how much money I've spent on this bike, including purchasing it. If I totaled it up I might not be too far from the price of a CNW bike.