Wiring sparx switch controls

Eric1109 said:
Great thanks this gets me started. What do you think should I keep this harness or go to a two part one. Would that make things easier. Especially wiring in a kill function
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Yes, although you will need the later ignition switch.

Eric1109 said:
Ah so I’m missing a harness That would be great if that’s still available.
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I don't think any such harness was available for the Norton Commando in fact as your harness has the green/white and green/red wires then you already have an updated harness.
 
L.A.B. said:
No. The '68-'70 Triconsul switch (no longer available) had Hi/Lo beam, horn and headlamp flash. There was no right-hand switch cluster.
rivera

Thread 'Wipac Triconsul switch'

Hi everybody!
I purchased an original Wipac Triconsul switch for my 70 Commando and have a few questions about it:
Wipac Triconsul switch


The bike was fitted with the later style Lucas control units . I want to restore it to get the original look on the handlebars.
The high beam flasher knob is brown on my switch, normaly it should be a green knob?
Hope it is a Triconsul and not a Tricon with kill switch ! I have no comparison.

The seller said an internal screw is missing but there was never a screw fitted on that empty hole. I can see no marks.

Wipac Triconsul switch


Wiring: a cable bridge should be...


The green-only wire would be the original flasher stem wire. The original flashers grounded through the stem.
Wiring sparx switch controls

If your flashers have two wires then one connects to green/white or green/red and the other is an earth/ground and there's no harness connection for that so you need to connect it to ground (red).

The horn is also wired differently on the later models. The '68-'70 Triconsul has a push-to-ground horn switch, the later Lucas switch does not.
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WIPAC is gone, replica Tricon and Ducon are not. I normally stock both but only have Tricon right now. Triconsol is gone but can be simulated.
 
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Eric1109 said:
Here is harness I’m using View attachment 116680
Click to expand...
Notice that it shows for 68-69 Commandos. The Lucas number listed for 70-74 Commandos is 54960723

1970 early and late are not the same. AFAIK: The ammeter equipped bikes had no turn signals. The later bikes did but did not have ammeters. For what you are trying to do the 70-740 Lucas harness would be better, but you'll need 54960724 to go with it.

Of course, you can do the things I've said to use the harness you bought and keep the ammeter.

The modern Lucas products are certainly not perfect.
 
L.A.B. said:
The change as far as I'm aware occurred at 141783 in January 1971 so the early harness should be '68-'70 and the later harness therefore is '71-'74.
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Agreed, except that Lucas (current) does not agree. They have 68-69 like the drawing shows, and they have 70-74 (main and separate headlight). So, if he has 12volt coils, ammeter, and no turn signals, then the harness he bought is the closest available. If he wants to keep the ammeter then the 70-74 harness will not work so he will need to use then 68-69 version and add the wires I've told him about.

I have: S Type discontinued in June (Last=135088), Fastback MK II, Sept. 1970 (139571) to Jan. '71 (141717). According to Peter Henshaw, 135140 was the first Roadster and he says it happened in 1970 at 135140. Best I can tell, "1970" was a transition year and there was no smooth cutoff. Even AN has 68-70 and 70 Interim listings which more or less agrees with Lucas on this issue.

I still do not know if he has an S Type or not. He only said S Headlight.

All this is why I've asked for much more info on his bike - silly to keep giving advice without actually knowing.
 
L.A.B. said:
Yes and likely copied from Roy Bacon's information but what has that to do with it as the '70 Roadster was just a low-pipe 'S' with the central oil tank, headlight halo and the same wiring?
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Not the point - read entire post quit nitpicking! The point is that there were various cutoffs/changes as best I've been able to determine in "70" to include the cutover from one harness to the other. When that actually happened and to which model(s) at which times, I have no idea. Apparently neither does AN or modern Lucas.
 
marshg246 said:
When that actually happened and to which model(s) at which times, I have no idea.
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I already mentioned it.

The serial number came from Steve Wilson's book and the information on the wiring change is in Service Release N34, January 1971 so maybe you will climb down off your high horse.
 
marshg246 said:
Agreed, except that Lucas (current) does not agree. They have 68-69 like the drawing shows, and they have 70-74 (main and separate headlight). So, if he has 12volt coils, ammeter, and no turn signals, then the harness he bought is the closest available. If he wants to keep the ammeter then the 70-74 harness will not work so he will need to use then 68-69 version and add the wires I've told him about.

I have: S Type discontinued in June (Last=135088), Fastback MK II, Sept. 1970 (139571) to Jan. '71 (141717). According to Peter Henshaw, 135140 was the first Roadster and he says it happened in 1970 at 135140. Best I can tell, "1970" was a transition year and there was no smooth cutoff. Even AN has 68-70 and 70 Interim listings which more or less agrees with Lucas on this issue.

I still do not know if he has an S Type or not. He only said S Headlight.

All this is why I've asked for much more info on his bike - silly to keep giving advice without actually knowing.
Click to expand...
It is a 1970 roadster. But from what I can tell it’s virtually identical to the s except for the exhaust. Same side covers and oil reservoir, headlight halo and amp meter. I think il stick with this harness and wire turn signals as you noted. I don’t want to give up amp meter cool looking feature. Then I’ll figure out some way to do a kill switch. Having done a bit of reading I th8nk I’ll invest in a modern turn signal flasher then won’t worry about bulb wagage. I will have few spare wires as I’m going with electronic ignition and modern rectifier. Then I’ll figure out the horn wiring.
 
marshg246 said:
Agreed, except that Lucas (current) does not agree. They have 68-69 like the drawing shows, and they have 70-74 (main and separate headlight). So, if he has 12volt coils, ammeter, and no turn signals, then the harness he bought is the closest available. If he wants to keep the ammeter then the 70-74 harness will not work so he will need to use then 68-69 version and add the wires I've told him about.

I have: S Type discontinued in June (Last=135088), Fastback MK II, Sept. 1970 (139571) to Jan. '71 (141717). According to Peter Henshaw, 135140 was the first Roadster and he says it happened in 1970 at 135140. Best I can tell, "1970" was a transition year and there was no smooth cutoff. Even AN has 68-70 and 70 Interim listings which more or less agrees with Lucas on this issue.

I still do not know if he has an S Type or not. He only said S Headlight.

All this is why I've asked for much more info on his bike - silly to keep giving advice without actually knowing.
Click to expand...
Are you saying my harness won work with 6 volt coils?
 
Is there anyth8ng that explains the Colors on the hand controls as they don’t quite match harness Colors. I posted wires earlier on thread as well as photo of the controls I’m using. They are 1971 onward. Aluminum with two black buttons and black center paddle.
 
Eric1109 said:
Is there anyth8ng that explains the Colors on the hand controls as they don’t quite match harness Colors.
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I don't quite see the need for a second thread on the subject, however, I will continue in the other thread.
 
Eric1109 said:
Is there anyth8ng that explains the Colors on the hand controls as they don’t quite match harness Colors. I posted wires earlier on thread as well as photo of the controls I’m using. They are 1971 onward. Aluminum with two black buttons and black center paddle.
Click to expand...
See post #7 this thread. If you want the same for the other side show them or say what colors are there.
 
I'm working on a similar issue with my '73 850. I have a new Sparx RH switch and new "Genuine" Lucas rear signals. Everything seems to be wired correctly, although I'm bypassing the kill switch. So I have white/green, red/green, and light green/brown all connected to the existing harness. The signals turn on with the switch toggled, but no flash. I've checked voltage and amps at the relay and I'm getting about 11.5v, and 1.65A. I tried replacing the original Lucas relay with a new "digital" one, but still nothing but a steady glow, both left and right. Also, ground continuity checks at the new signal stalks. Am I wrong to think the white wire in the Sparx doesn't need connecting if I'm not using a kill switch? Any other suggestions are appreciated.
 
marshg246 said:
Notice that it shows for 68-69 Commandos. The Lucas number listed for 70-74 Commandos is 54960723

1970 early and late are not the same. AFAIK: The ammeter equipped bikes had no turn signals. The later bikes did but did not have ammeters. For what you are trying to do the 70-740 Lucas harness would be better, but you'll need 54960724 to go with it.

Of course, you can do the things I've said to use the harness you bought and keep the ammeter.

The modern Lucas products are certainly not perfect.
Click to expand...
Don't you love the 'Trust Lucas' in the bottom right corner of the harness diagram!
 
Note the wiring change actually happened in January 1971 at 141783.

The 8FL flasher relay won't flash a sigle bulb.
 

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