Widow Maker Frame

Yorkie

Yorkie

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I have a very early, original ‘68 Fastback that never received the stiffener update to the frame. I bought the replacement frame tube off AN and I am about to weld it in place but upon removing the tank I now see it’s much more involved than I first imagined. Has anyone here done the modification? I think I need to find and fit a later coil bracket. The head steady worries me though. Any advice from the sages?
 
Theres a video of them testing the frames , back in the day .

If you do 300 mph over cobblestones for 24 hours , or live in america and drive into concrette block walls ,
or get twelve feet airborne each lap , off road , you COULD break it .

IF its staying drum brake , preserving what must by now be a rather rare original , might be a better idea .

HAVE A LOOK AT A P II FRAME ! . Surely someone'll give you a 850 frame if you wish to do the above !

1968 Fastback

Hi all, I have a very early 1968 Fastback. When Ii got it it had 12.8" center to center 1706-1282 Koni shocks with 204 springs (235mm). Several things happened. First the early Fastback type center stand no longer reached the ground and secondly the spring on the left side comes in contact with...
www.accessnorton.com www.accessnorton.com


Working at AMC - Testing Commando Frame

This is the Testing Commando Frame page of the Working at Associated Motor Cycles Ltd website
www.workingatamc.london
 
Yorkie said:
I have a very early, original ‘68 Fastback that never received the stiffener update to the frame. I bought the replacement frame tube off AN and I am about to weld it in place but upon removing the tank I now see it’s much more involved than I first imagined. Has anyone here done the modification? I think I need to find and fit a later coil bracket. The head steady worries me though. Any advice from the sages?
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please dont do it, it never broke for me and slark, all this time, :oops: Just inspect frequently

Widow Maker Frame
Widow Maker Frame
 
jimbo said:
please dont do it, it never broke for me and slark, all this time, :oops: Just inspect frequently

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I used to say the same thing until after about 30 years and 40 000 miles my frame broke at the two down tubes and also at the big spine tube at about 3 inches from the headstock. I found this after a trip in the Cévennes mountains in France, I've been lucky this time because the headstock was still attached to the frame thanks to 1/2" portion at all three tubes.
I found a NOS 1969 frame in Germany and duly swapped it.
 
ericg said:
I used to say the same thing until after about 30 years and 40 000 miles my frame broke at the two down tubes and also at the big spine tube at about 3 inches from the headstock. I found this after a trip in the Cévennes mountains in France, I've been lucky this time because the headstock was still attached to the frame thanks to 1/2" portion at all three tubes.
I found a NOS 1969 frame in Germany and duly swapped it.
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When I originally bought mine as a basket case many years ago the original frame had been repaired with a big ugly weld where the large main tube had broken about 3" behind the steering head. Wasn't worth saving in my opinion.
 
jimbo said:
please dont do it, it never broke for me and slark, all this time, :oops: Just inspect frequently

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I hear you Jim but i need to sell the bike due to my pending emigration and not fixing the frame really limits the pool of buyers. It truly pains me to cut off the original brackets as that bike you sold me is so beautifully original. Frankly the bike should be in someone’s collection and not ridden but my shipping container is fast filling up.
 
I would not have thought that it was that not big of a job to reinforce the 68 frame to 69 specs by putting in the reinforcement strut.

I have a 1968 and at one time considered doing this, but the top tube had already broken and was badly welded back together. Instead I found a 1969 frame and will be using that.

I am guessing that to attach the reinforcement strut, you probably have to remove the heavy sheet metal shoe/bracket that is welded to the top tube and head tube. If so, it will be an annoying task to remove it without undercutting the adjoining tubes. Not too sure about the complexities of coil brackets. Assuming you can't just reuse the 1968 brackets, just use whatever came on the 1969 frame. Unfortunately the lack of illustrated parts manuals for 1968 and 1969 doesn't help much.
 
To a talented weldor/fabricator, all this retrofitting is a breeze. No drama.

As to "keeping it all stock/as it came", I have no dog in that fight.
 
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ILLF8ED said:
It seems logical that if Norton Villiers who were notoriously “cheap” found it necessary to replace that frame under warranty there must have been good reason to discontinue using it.
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Like say ... I heard of a rider who went up in flames on the Chateau Laurier bridge , Ottawa , Canada . Frame broke and then the fiberglass tank split and resultant fireball way back , when I was a teen . Probably why we are talking about this , to prevent any more .
I know of only one left unrepaired original widow maker frame 68 fastback model , in Kingsville car museum in S.W. Ontario . Totally original , green , dusty , not restored . I encourage anyone to visit and see it and many lovingly restored cool N.A. cars . Just ask to see it , nicest people . Also a cabin with the largest gramophone collection in the world , just ask and the man will put in some new needles and play songs from turn of the century for you . He insists on a new needle each play , then he tosses the needle . Do it .
 
I managed to get hold of a support tube from a scrap frame. Next step is to remove the existing headstock brace and head steady bracket. I bought the Andover Norton support tube but it requires a huge amount of cutting and grinding to fit so I am going with the original parts. It’s not going to be an easy job.
 
Yorkie said:
I managed to get hold of a support tube from a scrap frame. Next step is to remove the existing headstock brace and head steady bracket. I bought the Andover Norton support tube but it requires a huge amount of cutting and grinding to fit so I am going with the original parts. It’s not going to be an easy job.
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For a fabricator/welder it's a very easy job
It really is
 
ILLF8ED said:
It seems logical that if Norton Villiers who were notoriously “cheap” found it necessary to replace that frame under warranty there must have been good reason to discontinue using it.
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Good point.

But I guess the counter argument is that a brand new 750 superbike (in 1968) would be treated differently to a 55 year old classic today.

Nevertheless, as you say, it was a known weakness even when new, weak enough for a skint company to take a financial hit fixing them.

And… 55 years of unknown use and built up fatigue / stress is NOT going to make these frames any stronger!

There‘s no way I’d ride one unfixed. It would be on my mind whenever I hit a bump, braked hard, etc !
 
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Wasn't there the threat of a stop sell notice being issued if a cure could not be found by a certain date from the US authorities. Losing your biggest market is a strong incentive. 5 deaths in the US.

 
kommando said:
Wasn't there the threat of a stop sell notice being issued if a cure could not be found by a certain date from the US authorities. Losing your biggest market is a strong incentive. 5 deaths in the US.

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That is a pretty boring film....all of that riding and no overtaking :rolleyes:
 
And really they should have been testing the frames by pushing the motorcycles off the back of a lorry onto the ground while still crated up....... Or so the story goes.
 
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