Why the 750 - 4 didn't handle as well as the Norton.

Mart UK said:
I have both. A '75 850mk3 and a '76 CB750K6. The Commando is the sportier bike. The Honda is smooth and plush by comparison. Both are more than quick enough. The Honda is easier to take apart.

I enjoy riding both and despite not being as sporty, I often choose the Honda over the Norton, I love riding it and enjoy the induction note. Having giv3n both Hagon rear shocks and front shock overhauls, I think the heavier handling of the Honda is inherent in it's weight distribution, a bit more top and front heavy. Goes where it's pointed though and doesn't wallow on new rear shocks and heavier fork oil.

They both look magnificent lined up next to each other in my garage. I still look back at them and feel very lucky!
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As mentioned earlier, this is a Norton forum.

Such objectivity is generally frowned upon ;)
 
Well my Norton has outlived all my mates who brought new Honda 4s the same time I brought my new Norton, I also clocked up more miles on my Norton than what they did as well and for some unknown reason my Norton never leaked oil, thought I always had a freak of a Norton as it keep going and going, it's only me that is now broken, after 7 months sitting in the shed in the same spot still no oil under it on the floor and yes it has oil in it mostly seeped from the oil tank into the crank case by now. keeping the bottom end nice and lubed.
A Norton twin sounds better than a 4 cylinder sewing machine any day.
 
I think it largely came down to jap bikes were a lot more reliable. Not better handling or better looking or lighter
or even faster.
They were less likely to leave you stranded. That sure is worth a lot if you live in the country.
 
Onder said:
I think it largely came down to jap bikes were a lot more reliable. Not better handling or better looking or lighter
or even faster.
They were less likely to leave you stranded. That sure is worth a lot if you live in the country.
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True.

And reckon we often miss the fact that they were new / modern / exciting / fashionable / etc whereas Brit bikes were what your Dad and Grandad had ridden, often in old DR gear, they represented everything that many kids didn’t wanna be!
 
Fast Eddie said:
True.

And reckon we often miss the fact that they were new / modern / exciting / fashionable / etc whereas Brit bikes were what your Dad and Grandad had ridden, often in old DR gear, they represented everything that many kids didn’t wanna be!
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… And the Motorcycle magazines were banging the drum as loud and as continuously as possible telling us how great they were.

One thing not yet mentioned. The Japanese Multis, first the CB 750, then the Z one, would respond well to simple modifications. Bolt on a four into one header, dispose of the restrictive airbox, add some free flowing filters, adjust the jets to suit And you'd have an easy 10% power increase, sometimes more.
 
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Ducati DesmoQuatro sounds better than a Norton to me, and you can tell it's a Ducati from a long way off if set up right. My Norton doesn't sound like a Norton if you don't count the rattling valve train and piston slap. Straight through 2 into 1 exhaust is kind of unique at 6K RPM and up. If my Norton ran and stopped like it does today back in the 1980's, it would have saved me enough money spent on road bikes to buy a house back then, not today.

Got to be far more delusional than I am to think an old Norton twin is still the top of the heap. I know I don't belong here. I'm well aware of it. 🤣
 
ashman said:
Well my Norton has outlived all my mates who brought new Honda 4s the same time I brought my new Norton, I also clocked up more miles on my Norton than what they did as well and for some unknown reason my Norton never leaked oil, thought I always had a freak of a Norton as it keep going and going, it's only me that is now broken, after 7 months sitting in the shed in the same spot still no oil under it on the floor and yes it has oil in it mostly seeped from the oil tank into the crank case by now. keeping the bottom end nice and lubed.
A Norton twin sounds better than a 4 cylinder sewing machine any day.
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Are you saying all your mates kept their Honda 4s and they all failed before your Norton? And they didn't replace the frame, tank, ignition system and other hardware like you have on your Norton?

Sorry, couldn't resist.:cool:
 
For an old classic the Norton's are good choice, and there are better bikes around that are better with everything, but the upgrades that are around these days can make our old bikes better, just got to have deep pockets, my old Norton has been very reliable in the 50 years of ownership and I clocked up a lot of miles on it, done a lot of traveling on it and in that time I had a failed EI 100 miles from home, 2 broken rear chains that also left me on the road but not far from home, one was doing a burn out in my younger days and spat the chain down the road, got towed home by my mate on his Honda 500 4 lol and the other chain it threw the retaining clip and the chain got jammed up behind the primary case, so not bad for 50 years of ownership.
The Commandos aren't a true sports bike with twin rear shocks, but you can make them a lot better that when they came on the market back in the days, I loved my 2 Thruxtons I owned, but I got more enjoyment riding my old Norton, it also drew lookers where every I parked up when out riding it and having an open exhaust system it sounds pretty good, can't wait to get back on it, just glad it wasn't the bike we had the accident on.
But in the day, they were unapproachable and I have the wall hanger in my shed that says so and I just enjoy riding it and doing work on it installing a few upgrades to make it better for my set up and riding style, its build by me for me and I just love it.

Ashley
 
Mart UK said:
Are you saying all your mates kept their Honda 4s and they all failed before your Norton? And they didn't replace the frame, tank, ignition system and other hardware like you have on your Norton?

Sorry, couldn't resist.:cool:
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Its all good I just made my Norton better and build for my riding style and most of my mates never kept their Honda 4s and upgraded to better bikes, none of them kept them for 50 years, a lot of them did major work on their Honda 4s to make them better than stock, it's all part of motorcycle life we all make them better than stock and for each other's riding style, and I never said their Honda 4 failed, well maybe one or 2 did suffer wear from being flogged when we were young and silly but so did my Norton wore out the bores from doing too many burn outs in my early days, from 17 years old to my early 20s I flogged the sh it out of my Commando, young and silly just like all my riding mates did at that age, we all learn by our mistakes.
Remember I copped a lot of sh it from my Honda 4 mates when I turned up on my brand new 74 Commando and then copped more sh it from them when I built it for me a few years later, but I built it for me and me alone and it's still going to this day, it's me that ended up broken, but not for long and how many 50 year old bikes that haven't had upgrades done to them for the better.

Ashley
 
Schwany said:
Ducati DesmoQuatro sounds better than a Norton to me, and you can tell it's a Ducati from a long way off if set up right. My Norton doesn't sound like a Norton if you don't count the rattling valve train and piston slap. Straight through 2 into 1 exhaust is kind of unique at 6K RPM and up. If my Norton ran and stopped like it does today back in the 1980's, it would have saved me enough money spent on road bikes to buy a house back then, not today.

Got to be far more delusional than I am to think an old Norton twin is still the top of the heap. I know I don't belong here. I'm well aware of it. 🤣
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I have had both Desmoquattro and Testastretta Ducatis and they sound fantastic with Termis.

My Norton with certain upgrades, and a Maney style exhaust sounds just as good, just different.

Top of the heap? No.

Way up on the fun heap? Yes.
 
I saw some E-dragsters at the drag strip a couple of years ago and thought they sounded pretty neat - different kind of sound, of course.

When I was younger I put loud mufflers on everything - cars and motorcycles. Then, some years ago I started doing the opposite- removing the loud pipes and replacing them with essentially OEM mufflers. I recently bought a '21 Motoguzzi V7 with Mistral mufflers installed by the PO. They aren't really ALL that loud but I still found them annoying so I took them off and put the stock pipes back on.
 
the reason Hondas took over is pretty simple- they were reliable (the term prince of darkness was real) they didn't leak and they had a button.
 
Interesting thought on the CB750. Will history repeat itself with the current influx of Chinese bikes I wonder. I was at a bike meet last week on my Model 50 as the Commando was in the sick bay (fully recovered now) and there was a Benda LFC cruiser thingy. Very different to anything else on the field, not sure I want to get on a Benda being a child of the 1970's, and the immediate problem i guess will be servicing etc as i think I have seen a dealer about 15 miles away In Brandon, Norfolk. I will go and have a look at the new Norton Atlas, but the 2 Nortons I have will not be going anywhere and my daily BMW does everything. The price of Chinese stuff, with European names etc will present a challenge to the 'Big four and the european brands, We'll see...
 
trappnman said:
the reason Hondas took over is pretty simple- they were reliable (the term prince of darkness was real) they didn't leak and they had a button.
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Yep all very true
The reasons for the decline of the British motorcycle industry are many and varied and have been discussed to death
But it's the handling being discussed here
Let's not forget it took Percy Tate to sort out the Yamaha xs1 650 handling
 
trappnman said:
the reason Hondas took over is pretty simple- they were reliable (the term prince of darkness was real) they didn't leak and they had a button.
Click to expand...
I also heard the same prince of darkness wise cracks, and believed them for years. Having owned, restored, repaired and mostly ridden for tens of thousands of miles old Britbikes, I now know Joseph Lucas got a bum rap. Lucas electrical devices were every bit as robust as Delco, Autolite here in the US.
The wiring harness by the lowest bitter did a lot to give the Britbikes a poor reliability record. In the US, the unfamiliarity with zener diode, and bridge rectifier system was the cause for many of miss diagnosed repairs.
 
concours said:
I also heard the same prince of darkness wise cracks, and believed them for years. Having owned, restored, repaired and mostly ridden for tens of thousands of miles old Britbikes, I now know Joseph Lucas got a bum rap. Lucas electrical devices were every bit as robust as Delco, Autolite here in the US.
The wiring harness by the lowest bitter did a lot to give the Britbikes a poor reliability record. In the US, the unfamiliarity with zener diode, and bridge rectifier system was the cause for many of miss diagnosed repairs.
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Wot he said!

And, in a strange kinda way, you could argue that Lucas stuff was too good in a way… coz it kept going, even when it was worn out, neglected, and way past its designed life. At which point, people slagged it off for failing !

We only have to look at the hassle we’re getting these days with modern Lucas replica stuff to realise that actually, the original stuff worked !
 

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