When and where to use the sealant
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Re: When and where to use the glue
Generally I don't use glues/sealers- the critical thing is to have true mating surfaces which they often aren't due to previous owners' over-tightening things. If the surfaces mate correctly, no glue/sealer is necessary on the the gaskets. When I do use any sealer, I use Permatex moto-seal. It's essentially the same as Honda-bond etc. After truing the appropriate surfaces, my Norton has not leaked any fluids for several years now (no, it's not out of oil!)
Generally I don't use glues/sealers- the critical thing is to have true mating surfaces which they often aren't due to previous owners' over-tightening things. If the surfaces mate correctly, no glue/sealer is necessary on the the gaskets. When I do use any sealer, I use Permatex moto-seal. It's essentially the same as Honda-bond etc. After truing the appropriate surfaces, my Norton has not leaked any fluids for several years now (no, it's not out of oil!)
rvich
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Re: When and where to use the glue
I have to agree on the mating surface being important. When possible, check for flatness. I have a large piece of 1/2 plate glass that I use with either valve grinding paste or by laying fine sandpaper down to "machine" surfaces. The only place I use "glue" is on the crankcase. Mostly because I want to be able to get stuff apart later. I have used Hylomar Blue with good success, but tried Welseal on my recent project. It seems like it should do the job well. I smear a bit of high temp grease on most gaskets before installing.
Russ
I have to agree on the mating surface being important. When possible, check for flatness. I have a large piece of 1/2 plate glass that I use with either valve grinding paste or by laying fine sandpaper down to "machine" surfaces. The only place I use "glue" is on the crankcase. Mostly because I want to be able to get stuff apart later. I have used Hylomar Blue with good success, but tried Welseal on my recent project. It seems like it should do the job well. I smear a bit of high temp grease on most gaskets before installing.
Russ
Re: When and where to use the glue
The basic rule, which works well in most situations provided the joint faces are in good condition is to use sealer, (I like Yamabond or similar) whenever a metal to metal joint is to be made, and just a smear of grease on the faces where a paper gasket is used,
Dave.
The basic rule, which works well in most situations provided the joint faces are in good condition is to use sealer, (I like Yamabond or similar) whenever a metal to metal joint is to be made, and just a smear of grease on the faces where a paper gasket is used,
Dave.
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Re: When and where to use the glue
I like Hylomar but nothing is all that better than another so don't stress over it, but do stress that these are elastic seams both thermally and vibrationally so highly recommend some un-waxed dental floss or natural fiber thread laid down with the goop, head push rod tunnels too. Note: Term should be "Goop" please, Not "glue" or you could easily damage something plus yourself trying to open up again. Some gasket sealants indeed set up like glue that hardens locked on. Bad Juju to avoid. RTV is not very good at staying put long term but has served many ok for decades. I take pride in tedium to clean finished seams as makes future weeps easier to see and wipe away.... Some will brag their's stays sealed for decades, about as many as can brag they are still with their first wife.
Now ask about crank case vents selection then which oil is best this time of year to get some real heat going.
I like Hylomar but nothing is all that better than another so don't stress over it, but do stress that these are elastic seams both thermally and vibrationally so highly recommend some un-waxed dental floss or natural fiber thread laid down with the goop, head push rod tunnels too. Note: Term should be "Goop" please, Not "glue" or you could easily damage something plus yourself trying to open up again. Some gasket sealants indeed set up like glue that hardens locked on. Bad Juju to avoid. RTV is not very good at staying put long term but has served many ok for decades. I take pride in tedium to clean finished seams as makes future weeps easier to see and wipe away.... Some will brag their's stays sealed for decades, about as many as can brag they are still with their first wife.
Now ask about crank case vents selection then which oil is best this time of year to get some real heat going.
B+Bogus
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Re: When and where to use the glue
I used to use blue Hylomar and it worked well.
I now use Welseal, which really sticks and never goes off, so pulling cases apart is that bit easier.
It's also easy to clean off any excess at any time with acetone.
A final property it has is that the joint can be seperated and re-made without having to strip and re-coat the surfaces, if roadside repairs are needed.
I use it on the crankcase joint and on the cylinder base (no gasket on the 850 MkIIA), every other joint has a gasket.
I also put a little around the oil gallery holes on the head gasket.
No leaks yet, apart from the tach. drive (Honda oil seal mod required).
I used to use blue Hylomar and it worked well.
I now use Welseal, which really sticks and never goes off, so pulling cases apart is that bit easier.
It's also easy to clean off any excess at any time with acetone.
A final property it has is that the joint can be seperated and re-made without having to strip and re-coat the surfaces, if roadside repairs are needed.
I use it on the crankcase joint and on the cylinder base (no gasket on the 850 MkIIA), every other joint has a gasket.
I also put a little around the oil gallery holes on the head gasket.
No leaks yet, apart from the tach. drive (Honda oil seal mod required).
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Re: When and where to use the glue
Crankcase seam experiences a shuffling effect although very very small I'm told. A flexible "glue" would seem a tad better than something that locks up solid ? The subframe to case bolts tend to loosen up if neglected contributing ,keep 'em tightened up, particularly the top one.
Crankcase seam experiences a shuffling effect although very very small I'm told. A flexible "glue" would seem a tad better than something that locks up solid ? The subframe to case bolts tend to loosen up if neglected contributing ,keep 'em tightened up, particularly the top one.
Re: When and where to use the glue
For the crankcase halves any non hardening sealant will do, I've had good experiences with wellseal and blue hylomar. Wellseal is available from most brit bike shops. As for the other joints ensure that they are flat (as others have mentioned) and just use high melting point grease.
Most importantly, make sure the mating faces are clean and free from old sealant before bolting them up.
Happy Christmas
Webby
For the crankcase halves any non hardening sealant will do, I've had good experiences with wellseal and blue hylomar. Wellseal is available from most brit bike shops. As for the other joints ensure that they are flat (as others have mentioned) and just use high melting point grease.
Most importantly, make sure the mating faces are clean and free from old sealant before bolting them up.
Happy Christmas
Webby
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Btw there is no real need of any gaskets anywhere in Commandos but for the TS cover and oil pump - in combo with the oil pump nipple to seal just right in the cover. My Peel ended up with only head gasket and TS gasket and now I hear a number of seasoned builders leave out the head gasket. i use no gaskets in the AMC box either and that solved my layshaft shim hassle. I Hylomar or other goop the TS gasket to the cover and just grease the engine side for on/off reuse and easier to clean goop off cover surface than engine side if gasket needs to be replaced eventually. Silcon seals are a treat for the rocker covers but mine worn out after a dozen+ of nip ups, so get two sets eh.
DogT
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I've always found my rocker covers leak through the studs, so I silicone the gasket to the cover, and smear very thin silicone on the inside of the gasket next to the head, plus silicone in the holes for the studs/nuts/washers. Usually I can pull them off and re-use them using paper gaskets and just re-silicone the studs.
Dave
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Dave
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Re: When and where to use the glue
The sealant used just needs to be the type that allows flex. Seems to be a lot of flex going on with these engines. ThreeBond 1194 was recommended on this site when I had my cases apart last year. Prior to this I used Yamabond in 1998 on the first rebuild. Both have worked well for me. The Yamabond had no failure with over 30,000 miles.
pierodn said:
The sealant used just needs to be the type that allows flex. Seems to be a lot of flex going on with these engines. ThreeBond 1194 was recommended on this site when I had my cases apart last year. Prior to this I used Yamabond in 1998 on the first rebuild. Both have worked well for me. The Yamabond had no failure with over 30,000 miles.
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