What am I doing wrong

capehorner · Jun 17, 2013

When I kick start my 75 Commando (which has a bad electric start) I always kick it with key off to get past compression. After injuring my foot for the third time (3 hair line fractures, injured ligaments, etc) I don't know what I'm doing wrong. Pazon Sure-Fire, Amal Premimums, tuned up. It's getting to the point I am almost afraid to start my bike. Is there a regime to perform or what. I am fairly new to this bike and love the bastard to death. Don't have the 2K for an Alton. Help

concours · Jun 17, 2013

Are you wearing steel shank work boots? Modern MC touring boots are kinda soft soled. Follow through all the way down? Engage pawl, jump up and straighten knee just before weight comes down?
You didn't say if it's kicking back... or just so much force injuring your foot. Use inertia to your advantage.. the kickstart puts you at a disadvantage, so start slow and finish fast, using the engine's inertia to carry through once you accelerate it's mass.

christulin · Jun 17, 2013

If it is kicking back, then the ignition timing may be off. I use the kickstart to turn the motor until it is ON the compression stroke so I use the full range of the kickstarter. It starts first kick with choke on when cold and no choke when warm (or ticklers for you). I turn the ignition on first (I don't know if the coils etc need a few seconds to charge), fuel on and enricher on before the first kick. Alternative is bump starting it if you are parked on a hill.

Hobot · Jun 17, 2013

I agree with Chris, SureFire may be a tad too advanced for just step on starts, but most EI need a key on revolution or two to wake up brain to start sparking at proper point. Its a waste of time and energy to step through engine w/o key on.
Best is take to compression resistance with carbs tickled or choke on, then use all body weight momentum to get follow through even if kick back timing it should not hurt to start. if 1st step on don't do it crack throttle wee bit and try again usually does it for me on cold initial start up, but one step on rest of the day.

I can get away with a couple kicks on soft moccosins to start my Combat but if takes a 3rd it hurts and I stop, check what might be wrong and put on boots or can fracture my thin bony ski feet even w/o kick back spark. Think bad gas, bad plugs bad pilot jet or screw set or float level, air leaks or electrical bleeds in HT leads. Or must consider you are not man enough to own and operate a heavy Commando twin with frustrating quirks or rich enough to have someone install electric kicker.

acotrel · Jun 17, 2013

You can always kick start a bike regardless of how high the compression ratio might be. However if the ignition is too far advanced, you could get a kick-back if you go at it in a hurry. I always put my weight on the starter, and wait until I really start to compress the charge before I raise myself and flick the motor over. If you jump on the kick start and try to compress from bottom dead centre , you are simply giving yourself a hard time. You should not need big strong boots to do this, it is a gentle process. If there is no fuel in the charge you are compressing, kicking the motor over will be difficult and it certainly won't start, so make sure you have it all set up to go before you exert yourself.

acotrel · Jun 17, 2013

Hobot, I love this: ' Or must consider you are not man enough to own and operate a heavy Commando twin with frustrating quirks or rich enough to have someone install electric kicker.'
I must have really big balls? I once kicked over a methanol fuelled 1000cc Vincent on 13 to one compression.

debby · Jun 17, 2013

hobot said:
. Or must consider you are not man enough to own and operate a heavy Commando twin with frustrating quirks <snip>

One does not need to be a man to own and operate a Commando! In fact, sometimes a woman's touch is exactly what is needed. 8)

Debby
first kick, hot or cold. I do wear boots though...

grandpaul · Jun 17, 2013

debby said:
hobot said:

. Or must consider you are not man enough to own and operate a heavy Commando twin with frustrating quirks <snip>

Click to expand...

One does not need to be a man to own and operate a Commando! In fact, sometimes a woman's touch is exactly what is needed. 8)

Debby
first kick, hot or cold. I do wear boots though...

BADDA BING!!!

kevbo82 · Jun 17, 2013

when i first pulled my dad's commando out after sitting for 20 years and rebuilt the carbs, i was so afraid of kicking the thing and it biting me. Turns out the thing was so beat up and sleepy it took probably hundreds of kicks before i got it to run again, that pretty much cured me of any worry and now i'm stupid enough to start it in sandals :roll: i really do think a big part of it is confidence and just kicking all the way through like ya mean it. When it's cold i kick it while on the center stand, same as others described, i turn it over till it's on compression stroke then turn the key and kick through.

I don't know about anyone else, but i wouldn't want a commando with electric start. the kick start is part of the charm of it to me. Besides i love all the people i see watching at the gas station wondering if it will start :lol:

ML · Jun 17, 2013

capehorner said:
After injuring my foot for the third time (3 hair line fractures, injured ligaments, etc) I don't know what I'm doing wrong. Pazon Sure-Fire, Amal Premimums, tuned up. Help

Had a similar episode, 850 with Pazon etc'. Turns out that the "degree plate" on the inside of the primary was 6 degrees out, timing readings were too advanced. Immediate cure was to retard the ignition pick up and its all good now and runs better. Next step was to put on a degree wheel and double check and that's were the error was confirmed.

Deckard · Jun 17, 2013

No need to cycle through with the key off. Push down on the carb ticklers until gas comes out, use kick start until you feel the that both pistons are almost at full compression, kick through with full conviction once and if it doesn't start do the same process again of cycling up to full compression. You might have to use full choke or open carbs to wide open while kicking through, but it should start or you'll have to investigate ignition. Most of the time it's technique on these. Maybe we need a youtube video on the finer points of priming the Amals and kicking through to start cold. I've been doing this since '71 and it's all good as long as you have spark.

kettle738 · Jun 18, 2013

Surely if your bike is a Mk3, you dont need a $2k Alton kit, all you need is the Norvil or equivalent replacement starter motor and a set of heavy duty leads to make your bad electric start set up actually work?

There is at least one thread on this site advice-new-starter-for-mark-t3334.html that cover all the options, it's all straightforward bolt on stuff and it should be possible without breaking the bank.

Mick..........kettle738

B+Bogus · Jun 18, 2013

grandpaul said:
debby said:

hobot said:

. Or must consider you are not man enough to own and operate a heavy Commando twin with frustrating quirks <snip>

Click to expand...

One does not need to be a man to own and operate a Commando! In fact, sometimes a woman's touch is exactly what is needed. 8)

Debby
first kick, hot or cold. I do wear boots though...

Click to expand...

BADDA BING!!!

+1 on 'best interjection of the year so far' award.

Sounds like a timing issue to me, too.

Nortiboy · Jun 18, 2013

capehorner said:
When I kick start my 75 Commando (which has a bad electric start) I always kick it with key off to get past compression. After injuring my foot for the third time (3 hair line fractures, injured ligaments, etc) I don't know what I'm doing wrong.

Are you getting kick-back ?. If yes, then you may need electronic ignition that goes to full retard below say 500 rpm. I use trispark for this reason. Never had a kick-back. There may be other systems that do this.

I flood, turn on and kick. I cannot recall I time I needed more than one. Once warm, a gentle prod with no throttle and it idles perfectly. 10:1 comp with std Amals.

dave M · Jun 18, 2013

Debbie,

Thank you for the reminder that we are not all of the same gender, demographic, political views or even living in the same country.

Bernhard · Jun 18, 2013

If you are one of life’s weaklings or have, as you say, fractured bones in your leg, try this, use a motorcycle boot with a metal plate on the instep-they don’t appear to produce these anymore, retard the ignition timing slightly, and set the pilot mixture on the carbs spot on with a Colour Tune outside on a dark night.
HTH.

dero · Jun 18, 2013

I find it best if I start my kick at compression , then give it all I got , works for me .
Also make sure the pawl engages as close to the top of the kicker stroke as possible ,maximises your effort .

DogT · Jun 18, 2013

It's mostly a matter of technique. Unlike most I've read on this thread, I get it just over compression and then give it what for. You have to kick it like you mean it. Also, don't jump on it, that's bad for the pawl. Start kicking with some pressure already on the KS and follow through, don't whimp out half way through. If you're getting kickback with the Pazon, I'd say you haven't got it set up quite right. I've had my Sure-Fire give me a stop one time, but otherwise, if I kick 3 times, I start looking for the problem. Tickle until you see gas on both carbs.

Dave
69S

daveparry · Jun 18, 2013

that both pistons are almost at full compression
--------------------------
Both pistons will never be on compression at the same time Deckard! (being pedantic here because I do know what you mean)!

Dave.

pete.v · Jun 18, 2013

It is not a steep learning curve but it does take a feel. You certainly cannot be jabbing at it like a 2 cycle, neither does it take an all out jump like you're trying to drive it to the center of the earth.

I doesn't help to have a predisposed condition but you can learn to use either foot.

When startling the bike I use the right foot and when standing at the timing side I use the left foot. Although this may not seem natural, it won't take much to master. It's all new to you anyhow. You can do this.

What am I doing wrong

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