Welch plugs lube

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L.A.B. said:
One thing perhaps overlooked is there's no seal between the swinging arm pivot tubes and the dust covers.
As the bushes are porous then there's nothing preventing oil passing through the bush and then from what is basically an unsealed metal-to-metal joint after the assembly has been refilled.
The 06.5227 seals at least have a plastic coating that probably does help seal the joint.
Welch plugs lube

Edit: +
Welch plugs lube
Click to expand...
Les,
Are those for a pre-MarkIII swing arm?
Thanks,
Mike
 
worntorn said:
JD track roller bushings are also oilite (sintered) so the cornhead grease must find its way into the pores ok.
The greasing regimen on those is extremely infrequent, every 250 hours.

Glen
Click to expand...
I have been using cornhead grease for a few years now - seems to work well, and hangs around longer than oil. I use it in the speedo drive as well.
 
YING said:
Are those for a pre-MarkIII swing arm?
Click to expand...

Although listed for Mk3, I would have expected them to also have been used with the Mk2/2A "sealed" assembly (somebody correct me if I'm wrong as the sealed assembly was introduced after the publication of the Mk2/2A supplement so those parts aren't listed anywhere as far as I know) so they should replace the earlier dust seals and O-rings as I believe the bush flange dimensions are the same, only the sealed bush overall length was reduced.
 
gortnipper said:
How are you liking those?

When they came out, I thought it was a very cool idea and bought a pair for my Mk2 as I knew I would be doing a complete tear down.

A year or so later, when I got to the actuality, I realized my mk2 had the late swingarm with the mk3 length bushes. And by then they had all sold out. So, I had to sell them on.
Click to expand...

I chose these when I performed the ground up on my 74' Mk II. Tracking them down and finding the right size was a PITA but now glad I did so.
The self-lubricating aspect using impregnated graphite just made sense to me. Install them properly and no more lubrication concerns with the swing-arm.
Swing arm shows zero play and remains solid and aligned plus its graphite throughout, no dry spots or dripping from over oiling.
 
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The graphite makes good sense.
At some point the Commando sintered type can get dry and wear out. It's difficult to know when this is happening so the best procedure with the sintered bushings might be just to douse them with thick oil once in awhile and let it drip out. I would guess this is what most owners do and it should work just fine, other than the mess.
The later sealed type swing arm does a reasonable job of holding the oil in for awhile, but it's far less than perfect.
I suspect that setup was intended to be a lifetime lubricated arrangement, but it just doesn't quite make it there.
I recently replaced some wallowed out sintered bronze bushings in a MK3 swing arm that must have dried out at some point. They were extremely worn giving about 1/4"- 3/8" side play at the wheel axle.
I don't know the history of the bike, but the seals were in place and looked ok.

There is also a factory oil impregnated type sintered bronze which I have used for various things in the past. This product is considered a lifetime lubricated item as the oil that is impregnated into the pores is of a special type that remains on the bushing wear surface much like grease. It will never drip off.
That type of bushing does not require topping up ever. I have used a number of these and had good luck with them.
That, and the worn out sintered bushings, got me thinking about using cornhead grease on the Commando sintered bushings.

Glen
 
YING said:
I was wondering if you have ever had the swing-arm off to replace the orings?
Click to expand...
I've had my swingarm off only once, with the intent of renewing the spindle and bushings. That's when I discovered that my MKII was different than what Old Britts listed for '74 parts. The bushings I had bought didn't match what was on the bike. Ella helped me out with felt wicks and seals, and I did replace the spindle with a stainless one. Not really necessary, as the old one was not rusted or worn and I kept the old bushings. This was some 20 years ago.
 
maylar said:
I've had my swingarm off only once, with the intent of renewing the spindle and bushings. That's when I discovered that my MKII was different than what Old Britts listed for '74 parts. The bushings I had bought didn't match what was on the bike. Ella helped me out with felt wicks and seals, and I did replace the spindle with a stainless one. Not really necessary, as the old one was not rusted or worn and I kept the old bushings. This was some 20 years ago.
Click to expand...
Same deal with me. My 4/74 has bushing and Welch plug parts from mk3 parts list, but was a mk2 in other respects, like the inline battery tray.

Edited for error on parts list.
 
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gortnipper said:
Same deal with me. My 4/74 has swingarm parts from the mk2a parts list, but was a mk2 in other respects, like the inline battery tray.
Click to expand...
I bought my bike new in May of '75, build date Aug 74. The dealer titled it as a 1975 850 MKII Roadster. The swinging arm ;) has Welch plugs and felt wicks, and it's unique to Commandos in that it also has the central fixing bolt. I consider it the best of all worlds, as I can add oil via the central bolt while the felt wicks keep the whole thing lubricated. I remember being big time impressed at how tight and slippery the spindle and bushings were when I took it apart. The manual says something like, "After many miles or where grease has been used instead of the recommended oil", the bushings may need replacement. I have 40,000 miles on mine now and the swinging arm has NO play.
 
I used black RTV sealant on my welch plugs upon assembly. Mk3 isos. Seems to work well with no oil leaking.
Welch plugs lube
 
maylar said:
I bought my bike new in May of '75, build date Aug 74. The dealer titled it as a 1975 850 MKII Roadster. The swinging arm ;) has Welch plugs and felt wicks, and it's unique to Commandos in that it also has the central fixing bolt. I consider it the best of all worlds, as I can add oil via the central bolt while the felt wicks keep the whole thing lubricated. I remember being big time impressed at how tight and slippery the spindle and bushings were when I took it apart. The manual says something like, "After many miles or where grease has been used instead of the recommended oil", the bushings may need replacement. I have 40,000 miles on mine now and the swinging arm has NO play.
Click to expand...
Mine also has the central fixing bolt.

In the 90s i had pumped in some gear oil, but other than that it had not been apart since 1989. PO had used a cold chisel on it to get the bushings out, I think.

Also has a Kegler mod on it now. :)

Larry S said:
I used black RTV sealant on my welch plugs upon assembly. Mk3 isos. Seems to work well with no oil leaking.
Click to expand...
I used a bead of clear silicone just around the edge of the plugs. Wouldn't know it was there unless you looked close.
 
gortnipper said:
My 4/74 has swingarm parts from the mk2a parts list, but was a mk2 in other respects, like the inline battery tray.
Click to expand...

gortnipper said:
Mine also has the central fixing bolt.
Click to expand...


I don't follow, as there are no specific Mk2A swingarm parts in the Mk2/Mk2A supplement.
Whether a Mk2 or Mk2A has the through-bolt and end cap assembly or the sealed Welch plugs etc. is down to it being either an early or later Mk2 or Mk2A.
 
L.A.B. said:
Although listed for Mk3, I would have expected them to also have been used with the Mk2/2A "sealed" assembly (somebody correct me if I'm wrong as the sealed assembly was introduced after the publication of the Mk2/2A supplement so those parts aren't listed anywhere as far as I know) so they should replace the earlier dust seals and O-rings as I believe the bush flange dimensions are the same, only the sealed bush overall length was reduced.
Click to expand...
This is correct.

The swingarm bush bore length was also reduced correspondingly and I don't know if that swingarm was listed anywhere on a parts list as it needs the rear drum slots and does not have the cotter pins?

Also these parts are not on the Andover mk2/2a site either.
 
L.A.B. said:
I don't follow, as there are no specific Mk2A swingarm parts in the Mk2/Mk2A supplement.
Whether a Mk2 or Mk2A has the through-bolt and end cap assembly or the sealed Welch plugs etc. is down to it being either an early or later Mk2 or Mk2A.
Click to expand...
My mistake. I had thought I recalled seeing them on there but they are not.

I edited my original post to reflect.
 
gortnipper said:
The swingarm bush bore length was also reduced correspondingly and I don't know if that swingarm was listed anywhere on a parts list as it needs the rear drum slots and does not have the cotter pins?
Click to expand...

Yes, the sealed swingarm would have been a different 'later' Mk2/M2A part that I haven't seen a part number for and not the Mk3 item.
 
worntorn said:
The graphite makes good sense.
At some point the Commando sintered type can get dry and wear out. It's difficult to know when this is happening so the best procedure with the sintered bushings might be just to douse them with thick oil once in awhile and let it drip out. I would guess this is what most owners do and it should work just fine, other than the mess.
The later sealed type swing arm does a reasonable job of holding the oil in for awhile, but it's far less than perfect.
I suspect that setup was intended to be a lifetime lubricated arrangement, but it just doesn't quite make it there.
I recently replaced some wallowed out sintered bronze bushings in a MK3 swing arm that must have dried out at some point. They were extremely worn giving about 1/4"- 3/8" side play at the wheel axle.
I don't know the history of the bike, but the seals were in place and looked ok.

There is also a factory oil impregnated type sintered bronze which I have used for various things in the past. This product is considered a lifetime lubricated item as the oil that is impregnated into the pores is of a special type that remains on the bushing wear surface much like grease. It will never drip off.
That type of bushing does not require topping up ever. I have used a number of these and had good luck with them.
That, and the worn out sintered bushings, got me thinking about using cornhead grease on the Commando sintered bushings.

Glen
Click to expand...
Glen,
I have never heard of cornhead grease.Is it something that I find at a tractor supply?
Thanks,
Mike
 
It's a lightweight grease made by John Deere for their corn Harvester cutting heads. They have found it to be greatly superior to general purpose grease for a number of applications, especially bushings.
In the 1950s it was just specified for their cornheads but nowadays JD calls for its use on many items.

Glen
 
YING said:
Glen,
I have never heard of cornhead grease.Is it something that I find at a tractor supply?
Thanks,
Mike
Click to expand...
I bought mine from the JD dealer - about $4 for a tube here in the Great White North.

Started to melt in the saddle bag on the ride home - lol!
 
Derek Wilson said:
I bought mine from the JD dealer - about $4 for a tube here in the Great White North.

Started to melt in the saddle bag on the ride home - lol!
Click to expand...
Just got my 140 swingarm oil bottle from Walridge and am ready to try to apply it into the MK 111 welch plug / swingarm area somehow.
 
The 850 Mk3, however, doesn't have the central retaining bolt.
 
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