Wee surprise ,MAP long rods and Pistons

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Found this today https://photos.app.goo.gl/czL1P5QMgi20Mw8N2 , 74 mk2 28,000 on the clock , I also found these https://photos.app.goo.gl/nZfMWtdQ1WI71SVk1 .
Top rings broken on both pistons. Had been using a wee bit of oil on long trips recently.
No idea how long they were broken for ,Never had the barrels off before. Maybe a mistake from the previous ?
I see on the map site long rod kits (steel rods ala carillo) anyone using these ?
 
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Broken top rings can happen from leaving out a base gasket where one was fitted before, the unworn section of the bore at the top forms a lip and the ring breaks when the piston is at TDC as the lip is now lower.
 
Wee surprise ,MAP long rods and Pistons
Wee surprise ,MAP long rods and Pistons
 
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Thanks, LAB. The links work for me.

Blaise, what do the cylinder bores look like? And are the bores still standard size, or an overbore?

Ken
 
Ken,
The cylinder bores still look ok, no scuff marks and can still see the cross hatch faintly.
Still on standard size.
Blaise
 
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Broken top rings can happen from leaving out a base gasket where one was fitted before, the unworn section of the bore at the top forms a lip and the ring breaks when the piston is at TDC as the lip is now lower.


Helps to know how the previous owner rode it. I bough a '56 MG from the orginal owner who had used it mainly around town, nothing much above 40mph! I started driving it at 40 then eased it up over time to 60/70....... but I broke 4 top rings on the ridge the previous owner had created and needed to rebore it anyway!

It took the previous owner over 70,000 miles to create this ridge, I wouldn't expect much of a ridge at 28,000 miles.

'74 Mk2 should not have had a base gasket in the first place!
 
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Ken,
The cylinder bores still look ok, no scuff marks and can still see the cross hatch faintly.
Still on standard size.
Blaise

Not really sure what you are trying to achieve Blaise. Or how you propose to use the bike in future. Norman White told me a bore can last for 100,000 miles and I have no reason to doubt that. Your only concern might be marks from the broken rings and any possible ridge on the bore, there shouldn't really be much at 28,000.

A good fix might be new standard style pistons and a hone, or plus 0.020" rebore and new standard style or uprated pistons. New rings alone probably isn't a good idea since it is possible the top ring grooves have wear now.

You need to measure properly to see if just a hone is viable, it should be.

JSM long rods and pistons are certainly a fix, but compared to standard height pistons an expensive one. And again, hone at standard JSM clearance or rebore will depend on how they measure up.

There would be no need to assume there is a problem with the standard rods and that they won't continue to give good service, but crack testing whilst they are out after 44 years isn't a bad idea.

I use JSM rods and pistons in a race motor, there are a lot out there who do. It can destress an otherwise stressed motor and I would recommend them to anyone building a high performance engine, particulary one to be used rigidly mounted, like mine. Don't forget that they need more clearance than standard pistons, so you may need hone work anyway to get the clearance set! So it is probably easier to rebore straight away, which seems a pity if the barrels really don't need boring!

You will have to decide you really want to spend that kind of money, and if you think you need the benefits? You don't need to.
 
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Not really trying to achieve anything.I got the bike years ago with around 10000 on the clock and it had sat in a shed in Boston for 12 years.
just took the head off for mr Comnoz to do a exhaust thread repair and few other things for me .Thought i´d look at the cam while the head was off and found this.
Positive the barrels have never been off before (and yes no base gasket).
Cam has wear on one lobe .
So time to think what to do ,since i have to split the cases anyway.
I do a lot of country road riding and do like to give it a good hand full.
And would also like to get a few more horses out of the old girl
Just happened across the map cycle site ,and was wondering if anyone had tried their gear ?
I´m flying to Europe tomorrow for 2 months holidays ,so have a bit of time to think about how far i want to go.
Thanks for your insight Steve
Im thinking towards do it once do it properly.
 
Well if you want a few more horses and the head is at Jim Comstock's shop you just need to say the word and write the cheque. :)
 
Not really trying to achieve anything.I got the bike years ago with around 10000 on the clock and it had sat in a shed in Boston for 12 years.
just took the head off for mr Comnoz to do a exhaust thread repair and few other things for me .Thought i´d look at the cam while the head was off and found this.
Positive the barrels have never been off before (and yes no base gasket).
Cam has wear on one lobe .
So time to think what to do ,since i have to split the cases anyway.
I do a lot of country road riding and do like to give it a good hand full.
And would also like to get a few more horses out of the old girl
Just happened across the map cycle site ,and was wondering if anyone had tried their gear ?
I´m flying to Europe tomorrow for 2 months holidays ,so have a bit of time to think about how far i want to go.
Thanks for your insight Steve
Im thinking towards do it once do it properly.

Well, I went the JS route with the stage 1 cam and his rods and high comp pistons. Also had Sir Comnoz do ‘the works’ to my RH10 head. Plus some other bits n pieces.

The combined effect is a total performance transformation, whilst still being very much Commando.

I’ve not regretted a single penny I spent on it.

Just my own experience.
 
I was curious about the MAP long rod/short piston kits, particularly as compared to the JSMotorsports kits, and there are some interesting differences, which I'm passing along. This is just for information. Do your own due diligence if trying to decide between them.

MAP Norton "Stroker" rods are 6.362" center to center (stock is 5.875"), with pistons to match machined from billet 4032 high-silicon alloy. The rods were originally meant for use in Triumphs fitted with 89 mm stroke cranks, but also work in Nortons when used with the matching shorter pistons. From their description it sounds like they are both CNC machined either in house or by a local machine shop (or in China for all I know), not from a major after-market manufacturer like Carrillo or JE. That's not necessarily a bad thing, and they look and sound like high quality stuff. The biggest problem I see with them is that they are new enough that we don't have much (if any) feedback yet from users. I expect that will eventually change.

JSM long rods are 6.400" center to center, made by Carrillo, with JE pistons to match machined from forged 2618 low-silicon alloy. The JSM kits have been around for several years now, and we've had a lot of feedback here from forum members using them, as well as from Jim Schmidt (the JS in JS Motorsports) himself.

Both rods are close in weight, with the JSM rods having slightly lighter small ends (105 grams vs 109 grams). The piston weights are about the same.

A complete kit, with rods, pistons, pins, rings, and circlips costs $749 from MAP and $1125 from JSM.

We could probably fill a long thread with arguments about 2618 vs. 4032 for piston alloy, and machined from forgings vs. machined from billet, so I'm not going there.

Ken
 
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