Water cooled 961

So.
I have a 2016 Commando SF which I bought brand new. It has 800 miles on it. I change the oil, filter, spark plugs, and store it in a climate controlled garage all year round.
After each ride I throughly clean the bike with strictly and only with WD40 and micro fiber towels. Never has this bike seen any rain or water ever in its life. At each oil change I check the oil bottle and I’ve never had to empty it because it’s never had much more than a drop or two of oil in it.

Well today I was changing the oil, spark plugs, air temp sensor, head sensor etc. when I peaked at the oil bottle it again looked empty of oil. But!
I happened to shake it and it looked like it had something in it. So I removed it.
this is what I found.

The air box is completely bone dry and absolutely zero oil film. I used a white paper towel to see if any oil or moisture would be on the towel as well and it is absolutely dry and clean.
My oil bottle was completely filled with water. All the way to the top.
Where is it coming from? I can’t believe this bike makes this much condensation.

Likely blow by of the rings. My catch bottle is mostly water as well. Stuart Bodycote (ex Norton), has made mention of the known issue with ring gap.

iwilson said:

Likely blow by of the rings. My catch bottle is mostly water as well. Stuart Bodycote (ex Norton), has made mention of the known issue with ring gap.

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Is it that serious!
Mine fills up with water just after I have washed it.
Could it just be water getting past the filter and into the air box.

MAK said:

Is it that serious!
Mine fills up with water just after I have washed it.
Could it just be water getting past the filter and into the air box.

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If water gets into the airbox then yes as the drain to the bottle is at the bottom.

You'd be shocked at how much condensation a bike creates. On my Morini I can see it dripping from the combined crankcase / rocker breathers and as they are clear you can see how much is being produced. Also 800 miles is quite low for a 2016 bike, do you ever get it really hot ? ( or is that a typo) ?


EDIT - Just an idea, why not remove the bottle, put some paper on the floor under the pipe then run up the engine and see what comes out?

cliffa said:

You'd be shocked at how much condensation a bike creates. On my Morini I can see it dripping from the combined crankcase / rocker breathers and as they are clear you can see how much is being produced. Also 800 miles is quite low for a 2016 bike, do you ever get it really hot ? ( or is that a typo) ?


EDIT - Just an idea, why not remove the bottle, put some paper on the floor under the pipe then run up the engine and see what comes out?

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800 miles.
when I ride it, it only idles at a stop or traffic light. Then I ride it good and hard.
my dominator naked does not condensate like the commando.

iwilson said:

Likely blow by of the rings. My catch bottle is mostly water as well. Stuart Bodycote (ex Norton), has made mention of the known issue with ring gap.

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The compression test I just did is equal between each cylinder, I’ll have to do a blow by test when I bring my gauges home from work on Monday. If the ring gaps were aligned the compression would’ve been lower.

MAK said:

Is it that serious!
Mine fills up with water just after I have washed it.
Could it just be water getting past the filter and into the air box.

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On a commando you’d have to get water under the seat between the pad and frame. The air filter is basically a open bucket.
I never use any water on my bikes and never ride in the rain. I find it odd that only riding this bike a few times this year since I did it’s last service that the bottle has this much water in it.

but here’s another thing I noticed. Last time I rode it my idle was at 2000+ rpm at every stop light. Plus I was getting a very very fine mist of oil at the front of the engine and on the frame tubes.

I checked the IAC valve it’s practically new looking and cycles when power is applied. No carbon build up at all.

onto the next step.

This is not a problem . The moisture comes from multiple sources , like the air and in the fuel. Both my Harley XR1200 and Norton 961 drip water from the breather hoses . It comes out in the exhaust too of course I just don't see it . If you ride the bike more , you would get less moisture build up. Be happy Scott , your not getting oil in the air box just a tiny bit of water .

TonyA said:

This is not a problem . The moisture comes from multiple sources , like the air and in the fuel. Both my Harley XR1200 and Norton 961 drip water from the breather hoses . It comes out in the exhaust too of course I just don't see it . If you ride the bike more , you would get less moisture build up. Be happy Scott , your not getting oil in the air box just a tiny bit of water .

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Yeah but exhaust condensation is from hi idle time and not enough drive time and also from high moisture in the air. I’m not disagreeing with what you’re saying, but this bottle was literally empty when I parked it last fall in my heated / air conditioned garage. I just can’t believe it literally filled up that bottle in a few short rides this year so far and it’s never done it before in the past.

iwilson said:

Likely blow by of the rings. My catch bottle is mostly water as well. Stuart Bodycote (ex Norton), has made mention of the known issue with ring gap.

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Blow by from crank case pressure? Imagine that. That’s why the 961 has a screw in oil fill cap / dip stick and not a push in cap/stick.
now I’m thinking maybe a pcv valve would be beneficial.

TonyA said:

This is not a problem . The moisture comes from multiple sources , like the air and in the fuel. Both my Harley XR1200 and Norton 961 drip water from the breather hoses . It comes out in the exhaust too of course I just don't see it . If you ride the bike more , you would get less moisture build up. Be happy Scott , your not getting oil in the air box just a tiny bit of water .

Click to expand...

Checked my airbox drain and oil/air separator today after a short weekend thrash over the Moors and the catch bottle is slowly filling, 1/3 after 600 miles. Looks like good clean oil and the separator was clean, a couple of drops of clean looking oil that's all.

Al's#5 said:

Checked my airbox drain and oil/air separator today after a short weekend thrash over the Moors and the catch bottle is slowly filling, 1/3 after 600 miles. Looks like good clean oil and the separator was clean, a couple of drops of clean looking oil that's all.

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1/3 over 600 mies is about right and similar to what I got. Factory once told me to expect it to fill every 2k miles +/-

MxMartin said:

1/3 over 600 mies is about right and similar to what I got. Factory once told me to expect it to fill every 2k miles +/-

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With oil or water?
this is my separator bleeding.

Voodooo said:

With oil or water?
this is my separator bleeding.

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Oil

When I emptied my part filled bottle after my 500 mile service (factory forgot to empty it) I did have 50/50 oil water but subsequent empties were just oil.

MxMartin said:

Oil

When I emptied my part filled bottle after my 500 mile service (factory forgot to empty it) I did have 50/50 oil water but subsequent empties were just oil.

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Same for me, 1st service empty a bit of emulsion from then just oil. Hopefully to continue.