VIN Tags and Dates

I am very close to getting a Vermont plate and registration. The last hurdle I need to leap is to have the local police inspect the bike to verify and check the VIN. I have a '72 where the frame, engine and transmission numbers all match.

Here's the kicker, maybe. The tag on the frame has no date of manufacturer, it does have 4 nicely rounded rivets that look unmolested, and I did run the number beforfe I made the purchase.

So, is it possible that this Norton never had a D-O-M stamped into the plate??

RS

Mine has the date of manufacture on it.
June 1972 it is spelled out just like that.
It looks lazily done and not in the designated box.
Chance they missed yours?
I would find the date based on your serial number and stamp it my self if DMV
is going to prevent you from registering it in Mass.
Marshal

RS,
It would have helped to give you some date frames.
Based on actual bikes I have observed heres a very primitive run down.
200,000 to 201999 12/71 to 1/72
202,000 to 203999 2/72 to 4/72
208,000 to 209999 6/72 to 8/72
etc...
Thats the best way to get the date approx. to the serial number.
Mine has no specific frame number stamped in any of the tubing.
Does your motor and trans match the vin tag?
Marshal

RoadScholar said:

I am very close to getting a Vermont plate and registration. The last hurdle I need to leap is to have the local police inspect the bike to verify and check the VIN. I have a '72 where the frame, engine and transmission numbers all match.

Here's the kicker, maybe. The tag on the frame has no date of manufacturer, it does have 4 nicely rounded rivets that look unmolested, and I did run the number beforfe I made the purchase.

So, is it possible that this Norton never had a D-O-M stamped into the plate??

RS

Click to expand...

It's very possible...I've seen more than one original tag with out a date and I am currently finishing up a '71 for a client that doesn't have a date on the tag.

I have yet to see a title that required a date of mfgr on it. Don't stamp a date in it...now your tampering with the tag.

If the police ask, just tell them that some bikes did not get a date stamped on them.

Builder is correct.
I erred don't put a fresh set of satmps on an aged tag it might set off a tamper seal w/ DMV.
I registered mine as an antique in Penna, 4 pics of the bike and I received a antique tag.
I drive it when I want. No one will hassle you if your out joy riding on an antique plate.
You could get a replacement plate from Old Britts and have them stamp it properly
since it is a restoration it is possible the tag was defaced over time and show new tag to DMV.
The do not need to see the whole bike in Mass do they?
Marshal

Mine 202093 has JAN 1972 stamped. I posted a photo of my plate a few months ago.

Also have the PA antique tags like Marshal and the other thing they wanted was a pencil rubbing of the frame serial number which I took from the headstock plate. This bike's motor vehicle registrations have gone from England to NJ to NY to PA and then PA antique when it hit 25 years old. No one ever questioned the date of manufacture or even looked at the VIN plate. With the antique plates there is no annual inspection and we are only supposed to ride in club and "historical events" but I figure every time I ride it's a(n) historical event.

I think you'll be good to go as it is. I thought Vermont was supposed to be an "easy" state.

The tag on my 750, which I believe to be original, was stamped OCT 1971. I believe that's how the factory stamped them, with a three-letter month abbreviation and a four digit year. I've seen plenty of them stamped with digits only, e.g. 10 1971 (alphanumeric stamp sets cost more and some guys don't want to pay extra!)

I've had a few VIN inspections done over the years and I've never had anyone look at the manufacturing date. So I wouldn't worry about it. You might be able to have the inspection done at a motorcycle shop where they'll possibly be a little friendlier than the DMV. Any licensed dealer should be able to do it. My local dealer does them for free. DMV charges. Why pay more? :wink:

Debby

I think the issue is that Vermont doesn't title for vehicles older than (I think it's 15 years) and if there is no date on the VIN plate it'll make it slightly harder to prove how old it is.

Thanks all.

All my number match at 208115. I posed the question because I am anticipating that the police officer may ask and wanted to be prepared. The more I can anticipate and perpare for the easier it will be in the end.

Mass requires, at least, a prior registration and a notorized bill-of-sale; I have the notarized bill-of-sale, but the guy who sold it to me couldn't produce a registration. When I show the RMV (MA) a current VT registration, in my name, I will get a registration and a title.

I am trying to anticipate, and prepare for, every possible nuance the "system" can throw at me; "walk softly and carry a big stick"....I try hard to do everything in a version one (v 1.0) environment.

RS

I had 200530 with no date stamped on a very tatty and original plate. Bike had been UK registered since new (but wasn't registered until 6/9/72) although I'd guess that as an early 1972 model year, it must have been built almost a year earlier. Strangely, it doesn't appear in the factory ledgers either so maybe it got held up somewhere in production or rectification.

RS,
Shy of some odd ball situations like 79x100 reported your bike was most likely manufactured in late April or May 1972.
Again using the logic of other bikes observed w/ correct vin numbers associated.
An ending production of combats in 12/72 I would imagine following pattern would make vin range at 220,000 ish
I've heard of the VT titling process to get things rolling in a host state. Best of luck.
Marshal

Thanks, again, all.

I realize that this is not a "technical" topic so I hope it doesn't offend individuals that open the thread without reading the heading 8)

Registering as an antique is out for me, I couldn't live with constrained riding time. I have been working the Vermont form and have it ready for the local PD to sign-off on, after they verify the VIN, which they do for free in Stow. I asked for the help because I anticipate the PD asking the question about the manufacturing date and I want to able to apply a bit of overkill; most of the LEOs in town are young guys and are used to seeing VIN plates with enough information on them to identify all the people that built the machine...

Just before I purchased the bike I called the police and asked them to run the number; the guy who, finally, did it was convinced tha the number was way to short.

RS

RoadScholar said:

Just before I purchased the bike I called the police and asked them to run the number; the guy who, finally, did it was convinced tha the number was way to short.

Click to expand...

VIN numbers typically contain 14 digits. But then, the Commando frame plate number is not a true "VIN number", and the plate is not a "VIN plate"-even if registration authorities tend to regard it as such these days, it's a safety certification plate-as the VIN number system for motorcycles wasn't introduced until around 1980-81.

All of my newer bikes' VINs are 16 or 17 digits...

grandpaul said:

All of my newer bikes' VINs are 16 or 17 digits...

Click to expand...

Yes, you're right, a 17 digit VIN number system is standard in the USA and presumably many other countries.

14 digit system: http://www.ehow.co.uk/how_6874140_do-de ... -vin_.html

It wasn't until the mid 80's here in the USA that the 17 digit VIN # came into effect. Any normal DMV clerk, if there are any, would know that. I have purchased a couple machines from the east coast area that only came with a Bill of sale and registration card because of their age. Seems way back when, no titles were written.

ride safe,

Tim

VIN numbers typically contain 14 digits. But then, the Commando frame plate number is not a true "VIN number", and the plate is not a "VIN plate"-even if registration authorities tend to regard it as such these days, it's a safety certification plate-as the VIN number system for motorcycles wasn't introduced until around 1980.

Click to expand...

L.A.B., are you saying there is no true VIN # on a British vehicle prior to 1980 or so? Or does that only apply to motorcycles?

slupdawg said:

L.A.B., are you saying there is no true VIN # on a British vehicle prior to 1980 or so? Or does that only apply to motorcycles?

Click to expand...

I certainly don't remember ever hearing the term "VIN number" used in the UK during the 70's/80's?

In the UK, motorcycles had a "frame number" and a cars had a "chassis number", no-one ever referred to them as a "VIN" number at least not that I can recall?

Apparently some US car manufacturers have been using a VIN number system since the 50's-but even that appears to have been something of an arbitrary scheme which only became law in the USA from 1981. http://www.vehicleidentificationnumber. ... story.html

The newest vehicle I own is a 1986 BMW K100RT and its frame is stamped with a seven digit number, listed as the "VIN/Chassis/Frame No." on my copy of the V5 registration document issued in 1997 (a new V5 is issued whenever there's a change made to the V5 details, in that particular instance because I changed my address). So even by 1986, it would appear that a 14/17 digit "VIN" number system was still not the adopted identification standard for motorcycles in the UK.

The 17 digit VIN was implemented by the US DoT in 1980 for 1981 and newer vehicles. Manufacturers had used various systems for numbered their products, but data such as country of origin and manufacturer were not usually included in these numbers. The new VIN tells much about the vehicle, including the country of origin, the manufacturer, model-specific information, and a unique build number. Included in this system is a special 'check digit' that follows a convoluted formula that makes alteration of the VIN harder to do.

When I was a kid, I worked in a shop that restored high-performance Fords from the '60s. Ford's ID numbers of the time gave you the model year, plant of manufacture, body style and model line, and engine. For example, the number 5R09Kxxxxxx meant a 1965 (5) San Jose-built (R) Mustang 2+2 Fastback (09) with a Hi-Po 289(K). Every '65 Shelby Mustang, and the first 100 or so '66s had this number under the riveted-on Shelby-American ID plate. This number did not tell you who the manufacturer was, the country of origin, the transmission used, the trim level of the vehicle or any other info. With the new VIN system, the manufacturer has 5 digits to describe the vehicle (places 4-8), and can get very specific with a model description (a little over 60 million alpha-numeric permutations).

This afternoon I sent in all the required forms to the Vermont DMV for a plate and registration for my '72 Combat. In essence:

1) Their application with the signature of the PO and the VIN verification filled in and signed off by a local LEO
2) A notoarized bill-of-sale
3) An odometer statement signed by me and the PO
4) A letter from my local chief of police stating that the LEO that did the VIN verification was legit.

Last Sunday I had a local LEO do the VIN verification and when I called the DMV in Vermont to check my paper work they asked for one aditional piece, that being a letter on the local law enforcement's stationery certifing the the LEO that did the VIN verification was, in fact, a member of their team. I went to the station and asked, it took a bit of explaining, these types are trained to look for a cherry herring in everything, but finally gave me the signed document.

In the package I sent to the DMV I included a check for the $41 registration fee plus 6% sales tax on the purchase price, and we'll see what happens.

More later.

RS

RS