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SLIGHT PROMBLEM WITH DVLA
HAVE VIN NO. 314796 850 COMMANDO NEED DATE MANUFACTURED
MANY THANKS
RICHARD
HAVE VIN NO. 314796 850 COMMANDO NEED DATE MANUFACTURED
MANY THANKS
RICHARD
VIN NO..
- Thread starter Richard Barks
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You could contact the Norton owners club they have a dating service (bikes not people :wink: ) that will give you letters that the DVLA will take as valid prove of date of manufacturer. Some but not all insurance companies will give you a discount on your premium which is often the near the cost of membership.
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The majority of surviving 850 records are held by Andover Norton.
There are no records from 305549 to 317848.
https://andover-norton.co.uk/en/factory-records/
Factory Despatch Records
We have all pre-Commando records available.
There are no records from 305549 to 317848.
https://andover-norton.co.uk/en/factory-records/
Factory Despatch Records
We have all pre-Commando records available.
grandpaul
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L.A.B. said:
Either I'm reading it wrong, or the third line from the bottom has it's higher number falling within the range of the second line from the bottom. If that's the case, you could eliminate the bottom two lines and replace the higher number in the third from the bottom row with the higher number on the bottom line.
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Are Andover Norton DVLA approved for dating, if they are not then whatever they provide will be useless.
April 2017 list
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... -clubs.pdf
Andover Norton are not listed.
April 2017 list
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... -clubs.pdf
Andover Norton are not listed.
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Re: DATE
Factory records appear to be of minimal value depending on content and thoroughness. Field research (which few seem to do) can be more enlightening.
313761 Mar-74 Data submitted from a real norton VIN plate.
314796 Mar? Apr? May? How many did they make a month? I'd submit April if it was mine. More field research might provide a better margin for comfort. Based on my experience with forum research , you will get practically no useful help here. Norton gatherings and rallies are the best.
Both of the following are my bikes
316385 jun 74
316544 jun 74
Richard What does your original VIN plate say ???? or are you trying to legitmaize a hot stolen or scrapped bike? or use just an engine # to create a "new" bike? with a "new" aftermarket VIN tag. ALL bikes I see with new tags I consider to be bogus until overwhelmingly proven otherwise.
Factory records appear to be of minimal value depending on content and thoroughness. Field research (which few seem to do) can be more enlightening.
313761 Mar-74 Data submitted from a real norton VIN plate.
314796 Mar? Apr? May? How many did they make a month? I'd submit April if it was mine. More field research might provide a better margin for comfort. Based on my experience with forum research , you will get practically no useful help here. Norton gatherings and rallies are the best.
Both of the following are my bikes
316385 jun 74
316544 jun 74
Richard What does your original VIN plate say ???? or are you trying to legitmaize a hot stolen or scrapped bike? or use just an engine # to create a "new" bike? with a "new" aftermarket VIN tag. ALL bikes I see with new tags I consider to be bogus until overwhelmingly proven otherwise.
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Re: DATE
This is for the UK DVLA Dave, they are likely to want evidence in the form of an actual factory entry for the vehicle serial number.
I assume this is to do with Richard registering (or attemting to register) CNW build 121?
dynodave said:
This is for the UK DVLA Dave, they are likely to want evidence in the form of an actual factory entry for the vehicle serial number.
dynodave said:
I assume this is to do with Richard registering (or attemting to register) CNW build 121?
Either way, I know DVLA's next question - what is the engine number, hopefully you have one. No one at the moment is registered to provide documentation for the new replacement crankcases for twins, thankfully they come un-stamped - see latest DVLA leaflets. I predict an inspection and either a refusal to register or a Q plate being issued.
If you get an inspection then I hope you have all the receipts from the retailers that you have used - DVLA can ask to see proof, you are royally screwed if you have bought from Fair spares, thankfully the one owner bought from someone who keeps all records of sale.
Currently there is one matching numbers Commando that has been removed from the road in the UK, it was laid up by the same owner 9 years previous and now re-commissioned, an in-experienced MOT examiner queried the number in the frame was different to the VIN plate and the engine number and reported it, it now cannot be MOT'd as it is flagged with DVLA they want to put the frame number on the VIN plate and change the V5C despite numerous details from NOC. This is despite it being for many years prior to being laid up 9 years ago.
NOC = dating service, not recognised by DVLA it now seems
AN = factory record, recognised by DVLA, but seeing as it does not give a date of or registration number it may not help.
If you get an inspection then I hope you have all the receipts from the retailers that you have used - DVLA can ask to see proof, you are royally screwed if you have bought from Fair spares, thankfully the one owner bought from someone who keeps all records of sale.
Currently there is one matching numbers Commando that has been removed from the road in the UK, it was laid up by the same owner 9 years previous and now re-commissioned, an in-experienced MOT examiner queried the number in the frame was different to the VIN plate and the engine number and reported it, it now cannot be MOT'd as it is flagged with DVLA they want to put the frame number on the VIN plate and change the V5C despite numerous details from NOC. This is despite it being for many years prior to being laid up 9 years ago.
NOC = dating service, not recognised by DVLA it now seems
AN = factory record, recognised by DVLA, but seeing as it does not give a date of or registration number it may not help.
Re: DATE
I have 316716, mfg Jun '74. Using my number and Dave's lowest number (316716-316385 = 331) would we surmise that at least 331 bikes were mfg in June '74? Anyone else have a serial number larger or smaller than those quoted for June '74 mfg so we can expand the number of bikes mfg in June '74?dynodave said:
Madnorton wrote:
If you get an inspection then I hope you have all the receipts from the retailers that you have used - DVLA can ask to see proof, you are royally screwed if you have bought from Fair spares, thankfully the one owner bought from someone who keeps all records of sale.
Are you referring to Phil Radford at Fair Spares in CA USA? If so, why?
Ed
If you get an inspection then I hope you have all the receipts from the retailers that you have used - DVLA can ask to see proof, you are royally screwed if you have bought from Fair spares, thankfully the one owner bought from someone who keeps all records of sale.
Are you referring to Phil Radford at Fair Spares in CA USA? If so, why?
Ed
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APRRSV said:
The Norvil Motorcycle Co. used to be called Fair Spares.
However, the bike in question appears to be CNW build 121 which is '314796'.
build-121-cnw-t26695.html#p353349
http://coloradonortonworks.com/121-2/
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So, what's with the DVLA and the MOT? I can certainly appreciate that these organizations want the vehicle in question to be as safe as possible and not someone else's property (not stolen). But. By registering the vehicle the two departments would have all the information they need to find (and prosecute) an illegal owner, if they miss the theft the first time round.
Is the "Q" plate conditional to these considerations? I see Mike and Ed (Wheeler Dealers) import antique cars from the US all the time and get them through the MOT, never a mention of the DVLA, why not?
I purchase motorcycles from various parts of the US, but run the VIN through the national stolen vehicle database before proffering a dime; my local police department does this for me; Massachusetts does it again as part of the registration process.
If the date of manufacturing records don't exist is Richard Barks perpetually screwed? What a bunch of unnecessary drama!
Is the "Q" plate conditional to these considerations? I see Mike and Ed (Wheeler Dealers) import antique cars from the US all the time and get them through the MOT, never a mention of the DVLA, why not?
I purchase motorcycles from various parts of the US, but run the VIN through the national stolen vehicle database before proffering a dime; my local police department does this for me; Massachusetts does it again as part of the registration process.
If the date of manufacturing records don't exist is Richard Barks perpetually screwed? What a bunch of unnecessary drama!
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From my post on BritBike.com similar topic but here in the USA...
"Title list the VIN 107603 Norton Comando 750 1964 not much help huh??
For foreigners to this USA thread., MOST (not all) USA states use the frame # as the VIN Not the engine. The most common example where this is not followed where the worlds most prolific noise maker (HD) choppers were given a pass with just the engine #.
To be emphasized that in the USA there are 50 sets of rules.
Based on living in a variety of states, in general, this countries DMV's are incredibly sloppy and the DMV's have only one prime function +$$$$
So we now know that Indiana fits right in there.
In Mass I have gotten several bikes titled with only a bare empty frame submitted for VIN "inspection". :lol: :lol:
END POST
town police most often I have to show them what to look at.
Well if you follow the submitted logic, If it is not in the factory record, the bike does not legally exist in England as a genuine Norton. Or you had better have every scrap of paper since it was born?
Therefore what does the CNW VIN plate say feb 2017 ?
Might it not be better to own the bike in england first, then have work done? Or get a certificate of origin like when you get a new motor vehicle. I have always made a copy if I got one.
Our incredibly sloppy federal and state rules allow a bike to be bought anywhere and registered in Vermont. without the bike ever being there or you living there. right Grandpaul !!!
This type of sloppiness in the USA allows commando bikes to be sold as Dunstall when it should be apparent Dunstall was only 1967... right?
In the final result for you England guys it apparently is not the date but the "paper".
Here in the US it is not the paper but the $$$$
My main rule is, don't spend a penny on any bike/motor vehicle until you OWN it = for me (massachusetts) it a title
If you only "possess" it then it is just a pile of parts.
A friend of mine has (possess') 3 commando's and each time he talks of selling them, I ask did you find the paperwork yet?
Back to work...
"Title list the VIN 107603 Norton Comando 750 1964 not much help huh??
For foreigners to this USA thread., MOST (not all) USA states use the frame # as the VIN Not the engine. The most common example where this is not followed where the worlds most prolific noise maker (HD) choppers were given a pass with just the engine #.
To be emphasized that in the USA there are 50 sets of rules.
Based on living in a variety of states, in general, this countries DMV's are incredibly sloppy and the DMV's have only one prime function +$$$$
So we now know that Indiana fits right in there.
In Mass I have gotten several bikes titled with only a bare empty frame submitted for VIN "inspection". :lol: :lol:
END POST
town police most often I have to show them what to look at.
Well if you follow the submitted logic, If it is not in the factory record, the bike does not legally exist in England as a genuine Norton. Or you had better have every scrap of paper since it was born?
Therefore what does the CNW VIN plate say feb 2017 ?
Might it not be better to own the bike in england first, then have work done? Or get a certificate of origin like when you get a new motor vehicle. I have always made a copy if I got one.
Our incredibly sloppy federal and state rules allow a bike to be bought anywhere and registered in Vermont. without the bike ever being there or you living there. right Grandpaul !!!
This type of sloppiness in the USA allows commando bikes to be sold as Dunstall when it should be apparent Dunstall was only 1967... right?
In the final result for you England guys it apparently is not the date but the "paper".
Here in the US it is not the paper but the $$$$
My main rule is, don't spend a penny on any bike/motor vehicle until you OWN it = for me (massachusetts) it a title
If you only "possess" it then it is just a pile of parts.
A friend of mine has (possess') 3 commando's and each time he talks of selling them, I ask did you find the paperwork yet?
Back to work...
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robs ss said:
Richard Barks recently mentioned he'd bought CNW build 121, so it didn't take much working out.
RoadScholar said:
As the vehicle was manufactured in the UK and is not 'new' the DVLA require proof that it is the age and type of vehicle it's declared to be.
The DVLA is concerned with the registration of the vehicle and allocating an identity (in the form of the registration number). The 'MoT' is the annual inspection. As the vehicle has been imported and therefore has no registration then the vehicle must pass an MoT before the DVLA will register it.
RoadScholar said:
That is not exactly possible when the vehicle has been imported from another country. The DVLA will be concerned with the importation paperwork being in order but that is a slightly different matter.
As the vehicle was originally manufactured in the UK then the DVLA will want 'paper' evidence of that manufacture (supplied by a recognised club or organisation) preferably copied from the factory records, so the 'identity' of the vehicle can be established beyond doubt so an age related registration number can be issued to that vehicle.
The DVLA do not exactly concern themselves with ownership as such, as the DVLA does not issue titles, and the resulting registration document (V5C) issued to the 'registered keeper' is not proof of ownership even though their name appears on the document as there is no vehicle title system in the UK, however, I'm sure the DVLA pass information on to the police where there is evidence of theft, fraud, document forgery, etc.
RoadScholar said:
A Q-plate is often issued when the age of a vehicle can't be determined, is a 'kit' car, is radically modified, or where the vehicle has been built up from various parts from different years or makes. Owners of Q-plated vehicles can run into problems getting insurance because of the reasons stated, and it can lower the resale value.
http://www.gocompare.com/car-insurance/ ... eBQgjxy.97
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The DVLA rules are getting stricter, as the factory records, etc. alone, may no longer be accepted, it seems the DVLA don't entirely trust the 'paper' information supplied by the recognised clubs unless the vehicle has been inspected (not necessarily by the club).
http://www.fbhvc.co.uk/members-pages/ne ... -ver4-pdf/
http://www.fbhvc.co.uk/members-pages/ne ... -ver4-pdf/
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When I registered a B44 some 7 years ago they would not release the V5 until the bike was inspected, took 30 secs at the local DVLA garage (which are now all closed so SGS will do it now) and they just checked the frame and engine stamps matched the dating cert and MOT. No doubt a modern looking bike would have been inspected for longer. Guessing this was a random check then but frequency now increased.
grandpaul
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L.A.B. said:
(I'm still very interested in straightening this out)
Either I'm reading it wrong, or the third line from the bottom has it's higher number falling within the range of the second line from the bottom. If that's the case, you could eliminate the bottom two lines and replace the higher number in the third from the bottom row with the higher number on the bottom line.
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