V4CR LAUNCH

Voodooo · Jun 3, 2023

grandpaul said:
I think they have deep pockets to start with. That makes all the difference, not having the sword poised over your neck...

Even those with deep pockets don’t want to lose money. How do you think their pockets got deep.

Voodooo · Jun 3, 2023

grandpaul said:
With a modular foundation that allowed for multiple models, in multiple displacements, right from the green light.

Great plan, and it paid off HUGE. As soon as the triples and fours were selling (didn't take long), along came the New Bonnie, then the Tiger, and the rest is history (never mind the "Thaiumph" nurds)

I love my Thaiumph

Stephen_Spencer · Jun 3, 2023

jan nelder said:
as I said after the January factory visit, they said that they are developing 3 or 4 new models. What the outside world will not know ( until they reveal them) is what these are and when they will be start to be sold. End of.

I guess we do know a little more from previously released info Jan. They also stated that there would be ’something for everyone’ if I remember correctly. That hints at more affordable models to me, which was the topic of discussion on Norton FB when that was said.

We can also be pretty certain I suppose, that we have EV’s on the way.

Hopefully not the ‘End of’ discussion, that might defeat the purpose of the forum

!

And what about this beauty - we had any hint of a release date? I think they are already taking orders. I would love to see this up close ‘in the flesh’. I think then we’d be able to see where the 42K was going. Maybe!

Stephen_Spencer · Jun 3, 2023

grandpaul said:
With a modular foundation that allowed for multiple models, in multiple displacements, right from the green light.

Great plan, and it paid off HUGE. As soon as the triples and fours were selling (didn't take long), along came the New Bonnie, then the Tiger, and the rest is history (never mind the "Thaiumph" nurds)

Huge success is the only way to describe Triumph’s rise from obscurity. Bloor purchased the rights to Triumph and then went quiet - for seven years!! Until he was completely ready to hit the ‘go button’. I wonder how patient die hard Trumpet fans were at the time!

A Modern History of Hinckley Triumph Motorcycles - Rideable Classics

Spoiler Alert! I’ve lost count of the number of makes and models of bikes I’ve owned over the years, but one brand kept me going back for more. Thanks to

oldnewsclub.com

Voodooo · Jun 3, 2023

Stephen_Spencer said:
Huge success is the only way to describe Triumph’s rise from obscurity. Bloor purchased the rights to Triumph and then went quiet - for seven years!! Until he was completely ready to hit the ‘go button’. I wonder how patient die hard Trumpet fans were at the time!

A Modern History of Hinckley Triumph Motorcycles - Rideable Classics

Spoiler Alert! I’ve lost count of the number of makes and models of bikes I’ve owned over the years, but one brand kept me going back for more. Thanks to

oldnewsclub.com

The difference between John Bloors triumph and TVS Norton is, Bloor built and designed the bikes. Unlike TVS who picked up where garner left off.

ntst8 · Jun 3, 2023

I view the current bikes as the equivalent of the Harris Bonnevilles, time will tell.

grandpaul · Jun 3, 2023

I'd like to know how much motorcycle-related engineering and/or design experience gardner actually had? (my GUESS is zero)

It's easy to spend some money on designers, engineers, and production facilities when you are sucking up government and pensioners money hand over fist.

Stephen_Spencer · Jun 3, 2023

Voodooo said:
The difference between John Bloors triumph and TVS Norton is, Bloor built and designed the bikes. Unlike TVS who picked up where garner left off.

There are differences of course but also similarities. Bloor took the time he (and his advisors) believed necessary to give maximum opportunity for success - in Triumphs case that was 8 years to develop models, build a production facility and get the first bikes rolling off the production line.

I’m sure that you can see that the Norton Birmingham production plan is still unfolding and they’ve chosen to keep future model plans under wraps (as did Bloor), no doubt for very good reason. Legacy models were an obvious starting point - unique models to follow.

Not “praising” or “defending”. A balanced view of the bleedin-obvious!

grandpaul · Jun 3, 2023

Basically, gardner had ZERO interest in Norton, OTHER THAN as a vehicle to accomplish Madoff-level financial rip-offs.

The evidence is glaring in the problems the early bikes had, that should never have been released 'till proven. Never mind the pitiful support.

It was all about money fer nuthin (and chicks for free)

Gojuu · Jun 3, 2023

grandpaul said:
Basically, gardner had ZERO interest in Norton, OTHER THAN as a vehicle to accomplish Madoff-level financial rip-offs.

The evidence is glaring in the problems the early bikes had, that should never have been released 'till proven. Never mind the pitiful support.

It was all about money fer nuthin (and chicks for free)

Broken record much?

jan nelder · Jun 4, 2023

also, the UK dealer I spoke to 2 weeks ago said that the V4 isn’t being shipped out to them until many more 961s have been made and supplied. No dates given.

Stu Bodycote · Jun 4, 2023

grandpaul said:
Basically, gardner had ZERO interest in Norton, OTHER THAN as a vehicle to accomplish Madoff-level financial rip-offs.

The evidence is glaring in the problems the early bikes had, that should never have been released 'till proven. Never mind the pitiful support.

It was all about money fer nuthin (and chicks for free)

Nah, not buying into that at all. You don't rip off people over a ten year period, that publicly....this aint the 1980s. It was just badly managed, with the people and resources available imo. Before you know it you're in too deep, and just this one last cash injection will save us mindset. When in reality it needed a huge cash injection along with a huge injection of previous experience.

Stu Bodycote · Jun 4, 2023

They

Stephen_Spencer said:
I guess we do know a little more from previously released info Jan. They also stated that there would be ’something for everyone’ if I remember correctly. That hints at more affordable models to me, which was the topic of discussion on Norton FB when that was said.

We can also be pretty certain I suppose, that we have EV’s on the way.

Hopefully not the ‘End of’ discussion, that might defeat the purpose of the forum!

And what about this beauty - we had any hint of a release date? I think they are already taking orders. I would love to see this up close ‘in the flesh’. I think then we’d be able to see where the 42K was going. Maybe!

View attachment 107363

I really can't see where the £42k has gone tbh. They "inherited" the V4 when they bought the company. The previous reasoning for the price tag was its a bike developed at the TT over several generations of race bike etc etc blah blah blah. But TVS have done none of that, they've just picked up where Norton left off, essentially with a bike that was 75% there. For me, it's still a beutiful bike and if the TVS version rides like the Donington version, then the chassis will have excellent road manners....hopefully they've tuned the fueling though, as that was pretty "raw" (a term used by journalists when they're saying something aint finished yet).
TVS do need to improve on the visuals of their welds and polishing though. Skinner designed the fairing to cut away in key areas to highlight the welds, as they were worth showing off. It looks as though some of that detail and thought has been lost.
First picture is a V4ss I currently have in for work, second picture is a Brummie-Norton V4 weld.

Fast Eddie · Jun 4, 2023

Stu Bodycote said:
Nah, not buying into that at all. You don't rip off people over a ten year period, that publicly....this aint the 1980s. It was just badly managed, with the people and resources available imo. Before you know it you're in too deep, and just this one last cash injection will save us mindset. When in reality it needed a huge cash injection along with a huge injection of previous experience.

I agree. I don’t believe he deliberately set out to steal from people, I believe he ended up doing that through incompetence and being a bad gambler.

Incompetence rather than conspiracy.

And before anyone gets excited, this isn’t a defence! He’s still very guilty of destroying peoples lives, and committing very definite crimes, and most definitely should have done time IMO.

kommando · Jun 4, 2023

grandpaul said:
my GUESS is zero

His background was in fireworks, he ran his dad's firework company into the ground. Then it was Spondon frames which he ran into the ground/defrauded to fund his purchase of Norton. Then whilst waiting for the 961 production he set up a pram company which he ran into the ground via bankruptcy and then finally took Norton motorcycles into the ground.

So main skill was bankruptcy or Groundworks

.

Voodooo · Jun 4, 2023

Stephen_Spencer said:
There are differences of course but also similarities. Bloor took the time he (and his advisors) believed necessary to give maximum opportunity for success - in Triumphs case that was 8 years to develop models, build a production facility and get the first bikes rolling off the production line.

I’m sure that you can see that the Norton Birmingham production plan is still unfolding and they’ve chosen to keep future model plans under wraps (as did Bloor), no doubt for very good reason. Legacy models were an obvious starting point - unique models to follow.

Not “praising” or “defending”. A balanced view of the bleedin-obvious!

I agree with you.
But Bloor started from scratch. TVS picked up where Donington left off.

TonyA · Jun 4, 2023

Stu Bodycote said:
They

I really can't see where the £42k has gone tbh. They "inherited" the V4 when they bought the company. The previous reasoning for the price tag was its a bike developed at the TT over several generations of race bike etc etc blah blah blah. But TVS have done none of that, they've just picked up where Norton left off, essentially with a bike that was 75% there. For me, it's still a beutiful bike and if the TVS version rides like the Donington version, then the chassis will have excellent road manners....hopefully they've tuned the fueling though, as that was pretty "raw" (a term used by journalists when they're saying something aint finished yet).
TVS do need to improve on the visuals of their welds and polishing though. Skinner designed the fairing to cut away in key areas to highlight the welds, as they were worth showing off. It looks as though some of that detail and thought has been lost.
First picture is a V4ss I currently have in for work, second picture is a Brummie-Norton V4 weld.

Hi Stu , I see the difference in the welds . The (stack of coins laid on its side) of the TIG weld is more defined on the left image .

Stu Bodycote · Jun 4, 2023

TonyA said:
Hi Stu , I see the difference in the welds . The (stack of coins laid on its side) of the TIG weld is more defined on the left image .

The welds are as you say more defined, mainly because they didnt need the living fuck polishing out of them....but they're also neater and more uniform. Also if you zoom in, compare the finish of the weld ie the last bit on the far right, on both images. And lastly, the weld going over the top tube on the tvs weld appears to go a little off target

EstuaryBoy · Jun 4, 2023

Stu Bodycote said:
The welds are as you say more defined, mainly because they didnt need the living fuck polishing out of them....but they're also neater and more uniform. Also if you zoom in, compare the finish of the weld ie the last bit on the far right, on both images. And lastly, the weld going over the top tube on the tvs weld appears to go a little off target

Out of idle curiosity, are any Donington V4s being ridden on the road??
Or did TVS's very public damnation of them make them uninsurable???

Fast Eddie · Jun 4, 2023

EstuaryBoy said:
Out of idle curiosity, are any Donington V4s being ridden on the road??
Or did TVS's very public damnation of them make them uninsurable???

Looking back at those events, it seems a very strange and unnecessary thing to have done to me.

V4CR LAUNCH

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A Modern History of Hinckley Triumph Motorcycles - Rideable Classics

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