Unsung Hero

Thats the headline in the latest Classic Bike Guide, #257. The rest reads 'Why the MKIII Commando is the best Brit bike ever(and still the best value too)' subtitle is The Final Cut 'What killed Norton Villiers and why the Japanese should be worried. Just thought I'd put the word out in case anyone was interested in picking one up. Peace

Best quote from article: 'If you ever wanted to demonstrate what the word torque actually means, this is the bike you'd give to someone.'

It's all a matter of opinion. My MK111 is slow and overweight after a blast about on Crazy Combat. But it's nice to have a rear disc . Young enough to not need the extra weight of the starter assembly. 70 S rocks with 19 tooth. Saving the MK111 for old age creeping up but fast !

I think their speaking about CDo's generally, but referencing the MKIII, bc of the elec start, left side shift,improved isos,and it was the last model.

Torontonian said:

70 S rocks with 19 tooth.

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Thank You.

Dave
69S

I built my Seeley in about 1978 and never raced it until 2003 because I did not really believe in it. When I began racing it in 2003, I was amazed at the torque characteristics of the motor, but I was sure it was going to self-destruct at 7000 RPM. I've kept gearing it up over time with the limiting factor of having a usable first gear, and with the light frame it just keeps going faster. I cannot believe that such a horrible motor can go so fast, I'm always expecting the big bang. The ultra long stroke is absurd, but it seems to work - the bike is extremely rideable. Even with the 4 speed CR box, (except off the line) it is perfect everywhere around our local circuit at Winton (Victoria, Australia ). Doug Macrae seems to have success with the standard commando frame. I've looked at them, but I wouldn't use one.

A couple of guys have suggested that I should ride the Seeley at the Motorcycling Victoria tack at Broadford. I've never ridden there, and the circuit is built in a small valley with hills in it. A lot of the corners are blind, and difficult to negotiate unless you've had a lot of practice. My Norton comes on with a real rush, and I've become aware that as I've become older I've become lazy. What worries me about Broadford is that I might get brain fade at the wrong time, and make a really wrong move. The circuit is very tight and twisty which is good, but I feel the variability in it would take a lot of concentration. The first time there with a bike which really gets into it would be quite dangerous. I raced at Winton regularly for about 12 years in t he 60s and 70s, these days I can ride around it fast w ithout really thinking about it. I think I will be riding there for quite a while before going to Broadford.

Torontonian said:

It's all a matter of opinion. My MK111 is slow and overweight after a blast about on Crazy Combat. But it's nice to have a rear disc . Young enough to not need the extra weight of the starter assembly. 70 S rocks with 19 tooth. Saving the MK111 for old age creeping up but fast !

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Have you been taking writing classes from Hobot?

Jean

Torontonian said:

It's all a matter of opinion. My MK111 is slow and overweight after a blast about on Crazy Combat. But it's nice to have a rear disc . Young enough to not need the extra weight of the starter assembly. 70 S rocks with 19 tooth. Saving the MK111 for old age creeping up but fast !

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Maybe your mk 3 is not in an optimum state of tune or is geared a bit high.
Norton says it has 14 percent more torque than a Combat and 16 percent more torque than a standard 750.
The extra weight of the Starter assembly might be 25 pounds. If this is divided into te total weight of bike and rider, it equates to about 3% extra weight, a small fraction of the extra power available at 5000 rpm.

Glen

acotrel said:

A couple of guys have suggested that I should ride the Seeley at the Motorcycling Victoria tack at Broadford. I've never ridden there, and the circuit is built in a small valley with hills in it. A lot of the corners are blind, and difficult to negotiate unless you've had a lot of practice. My Norton comes on with a real rush, and I've become aware that as I've become older I've become lazy. What worries me about Broadford is that I might get brain fade at the wrong time, and make a really wrong move. The circuit is very tight and twisty which is good, but I feel the variability in it would take a lot of concentration. The first time there with a bike which really gets into it would be quite dangerous. I raced at Winton regularly for about 12 years in t he 60s and 70s, these days I can ride around it fast w ithout really thinking about it. I think I will be riding there for quite a while before going to Broadford.

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+1

Know the feeling. While on the track the feeling/thought process is: "I was much faster, so what is holding me back"

"I race against myself"

so the starter stuff is some 25 pounds on a Mark3 compared to a pre 73?

but isn't the entire weight of a Mark3 quite a bit more?

is the starter assembly the only thing that makes it heavier?

I remember selling my 72 Combat and buying a new 73 850 when they came out, and feeling underwhelmed

From what I have seen, there are a lot of different weights listed online or in magazines for the same bike, so I dont think one can go by those numbers.
I dont see many things other than the starter assembly that would add much weight to the MK3, although the crankcases are said to be thickened in key areas. This might add another pound or two, probably well spent weight.
If someone has both models, they could weigh them fore and aft with a good bathroom scale, that would give the difference quite accurately. It is best to put a piece of plywood on top the scale first, it spreads the load.
Also, make sure both bikes are dry of fuel or have the same amount of fuel on board.


A good friend of mine bought a non Combat Commando new and rode it for a few years then sold it because he moved to England with his job. While in England he bought a new 850, not sure what year, but I believe it was a MK3.I asked him about the relative performance of the two bikes and he said the 850 was a more powerful bike and more refined, although he did not really explain what he meant by the latter.
I cant ask him now because he was killed five years ago on his Black Shadow when we were riding back from California together.

Glen

acotrel said:

Doug Macrae seems to have success with the standard commando frame. I've looked at them, but I wouldn't use one.

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Standard, eh? I bet Doug got a chuckle out of that one.

I probably shouldn't comment, but I've heard from people that have both 750 and 850, the 750 is more nimble. I'm sure it's to do with the weight. And nimble may translate to faster to some people. If you want we could get back to the CB750 vs. nimble, but I'm not going there, we've seen enough of that.

Dave
69S

The nimble feeling might come from the lower speed. On the 750 you will be only travelling 745/828ths as fast as on the 850. Much easier to fling it around the corners at that reduced speed.

worntorn said:

The nimble feeling might come from the lower speed. On the 750 you will be only travelling 745/828ths as fast as on the 850. Much easier to fling it around the corners at that reduced speed.

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According to Clymer's Manual there's virtually no difference in weight between the 750 and 850; the roadsters were listed at 422 lbs and the interstates were listed at 436 lbs.

One could argue (tongue in cheek) that the 850's were a tad lighter than the 750's since the 850's were relieved of a bit more cast iron cylinder bore.

I suspect the nimblenes feeling is because the 750 Commando frames had a 26 degree head angle whereas the 850 Commando frames came with a 27 degree head angle. This increase by 1 degree would "de-nimble" the bike a bit and slow down turning.

Good stuff eveyone. Just remember all CDo's rock, even the ones that are out of action! Worntorn sorry you lost a good buddy, no matter how long ago it was. He's probably doing the ton up in the clouds on that Black Shadow! Anybody read the magazine articles? It was fairly lengthy.

Not sue which magazine articles you're talking about Snorton74, But I did find the September 2012 issue of CycleWorld laying around here at the USO center on Mazar Sharif base in Afghanistan where I just arrived. Anyway I was pleasantly supprised to find two articles in it about Nortons. The first was written by Mark Hoyer who pens the Up Front colum, and this month It's titled "That Feeling" and it is all about riding a Commando, The other article is called "Adventures in Retro-Touring" by Peter Egan and refrences the Commando in a pretty big way. I'm continually amazed at how our Norton are still out there so many years later a testament to just how good our bikes can be. Cj