Ukraine airline flight PS752

Bernhard

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After days of denial, In an extraordinary change of events Iran has now admitted shooting down the civilian airliner in their own airspace near one of their own airports with the loss of 176 innocent people. The plane was shot down on Wednesday hours after Iran had sent missiles to two American air bases housing US forces in Iraq. Iran's admission it "unintentionally" shot down a has sparked international demands for justice for the people killed. And, as if it may never happen, the calling for the Supreme leader Ali Khamenei to resign.
 
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When I first heard about it on the news report about the crash I said to my wife "I bet you it was shoot down" and seeing how they started to clean the site up so quickly was a good indication of their mistake and taking the black boxes away so quickly, but to many thing started to show up from videos and spy images it got to the point they had to come clean and now everyone is saying accidental how can that be some one had the finger on the trigger and wasn't hard to work it out that it just took off from their own airport.
But nothing will be done about it as no one on both sides want to go to war so it will be pushed under the carpet and the only ones to suffer will be the families of their lost ones.

Ashley
 
ashman said:
But nothing will be done about it as no one on both sides want to go to war so it will be pushed under the carpet and the only ones to suffer will be the families of their lost ones.

Ashley
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Did anything come of it when the Soviets shot down a Korean airliner over Sakhalin Island, or the Ukrainian rebels shot down Malaysian Air 17?

Only the families of the victims will suffer .... laws do not apply to the Oligarchs who control the weapons involved.

Slick
 
Time Warp said:
Lets not forget Iran Air Flight 655. (sadly)
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True, ....... actually there were dozens of airliner shootdowns if we go back to the 30's.

And then there were TWA 800 (I don't believe fuel tank explosion), and Pan Am 103.

Slick
 
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Why can we not have peace even if only for one day.
 
There will never be peace in the middle east its the way its been for centries and when the west vs the east and oil involved and big money to be made from weapons sales and fanatical dictators in the world brain washing their own people to hate, maybe someone made a mistake when mankind came along, greed and religion plays a big part in everything.

Ashley
 
So you are saying Islam is the enemy here, what about all the other religions in the world that been involved in wars and killings in the world, you live by the gun you will die by the gun, its been happening for centries, religions have all been involved and not just one religion, mother nature is my boss, I don't need a book to tell me about life, I also know killing someone is not right, I know what's right from wrong, I don't need to carry a gun where ever I go and the laws that cover the right to bare arms isn't that just fueling it even more, guns aren't the killers its the person with their finger on the trigger or any other things in their hands.

Ashley
 
ashman said:
So you are saying Islam is the enemy here, what about all the other religions in the world that been involved in wars and killings in the world, you live by the gun you will die by the gun, its been happening for centries, religions have all been involved and not just one religion, mother nature is my boss, I don't need a book to tell me about life, I also know killing someone is not right, I know what's right from wrong, I don't need to carry a gun where ever I go and the laws that cover the right to bare arms isn't that just fueling it even more, guns aren't the killers its the person with their finger on the trigger or any other things in their hands. Ashley (QUOTE)
And this is the problem, humans of whatever race colour or creed, cannot be trusted to carry arms. I'm not a pacifist but it seems the Iranians don't appear to be aware of what they are shooting at , and as some would say, nor do the Americans either. By their own admission they too have accidentally shot down a civilian airliner. That's a sad fact of life.
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@ashman

In defense of Trident Sam, i think he was responding to your statement regarding no peace in the middle East . .... yes, Islam is the principal problem there ..... they teach and believe theirs is the only religion (I can accept that viewpoint) and that Allah commands them to kill or enslave infidels ..... infidels are you and me (that is abhorrent to me, as well as the concept of a God who commands death to others). Until Islam rejects that view, as well as several other abhorrent beliefs (abuse of women, martyrdom and 72 virgin rewards, etc) there will never be peace, and Muslims will never be fully accepted and live in harmony with the rest of the civilized world.

Slick

PS: Hell's bells, .... the Sunni and Shi'a muslims cannot live with each other!
 
Remember when a couple of certain parties were funding the Taliban as far back as 1979 and the goings on in Afghanistan. That would be the Islamic militant Taliban.

You do not have to shake the tree that hard with that whole area but be assured there are plenty of western entities lurking in the shadows.

It can't be all about oil or money but for sure any sanction only effects the civilians or some kid in a village.

Posted from the safety of my couch in the free world while wondering what I will make for dinner and if I should buy a Cardo Packtalk Bold @ $559.
 
@Time Warp

True, ......but are shootouts preferable to sanctions? It would be nice to have a world where we do not have to make that choice, but alas, I am a pragmatist.

Slick
 
The sanctions do little at the upper level (Kofi Annan) while there can be skulduggery behind closed doors.

Practicality over ideals suggests if you do not get evolved you most likely will not have to deal with consequence but that might be regarded as idealist.
 
One has to be careful as it can be construed not as meant.

How did a bunch of peasants 300 years ago know to turn up at a large field to charge another bunch of misfits (with the leaders somewhere at the rear) to the death with pitchforks or otherwise.
You could ask that about any battle.

One side could have simply not turned up, what then ? ( Monty Python )

You could apply that unlogic to a lot of scenario's.
If you look for trouble, you will find it.
 
You can ask many questions that will get no answer.

In the early 1980's Saddam Hussein was the go between for the U.S.A and Iran (Reagan days iirc) he was their buddy.
He was also gassing a few people with helicopter's supplied by someone I forget and with no consequences until 2006 when they out of the blue decided to hang him for war crimes dating to 1982 ?
Iran doesn't like Iraq yet Iranian Generals pop up in Iraq to get blown up, there are also more Iranians to shoot rockets at US bases, all of a sudden there seems to be a lot of Iranians in Iraq just like a lot of ISIS popped up in places you would think they would not, even when the next place was far away, we were told it was those dirty ISIS.

Maybe like when there were a lot of Germans popping up in the Spanish civil war in the 1930's or Americans popping up in the Spain/ Philippines genocide.
History shows lots of unlikely people pop up when there is trouble to be had or an agenda is hatched.

If you have followed the middle east for 40 or so years, a lot of unlikely people pop up or are in the shadows, like a giant inter tangled web.
The more you dig and more you overlay the murkier it becomes but one thing is clear there are a lot of folk seen or not that are not from those parts invited or not but some of those folk get an invite from within who have agenda's of their own.

Do you think it will change, I think not.
 
The latest news here says the Iranian air defence mistook the aircraft for a cruise missle.

What kind of cruise missile climbs out of an international airport on well established vectors?

At least, Iran has admitted to the deed, if only that it was "unintentionable". Perhaps they will compensate the families using some of that US cash that was delivered to them shrink wrapped on pallets in the dead of night.

Slick
 
What does that say about the mental state of those at the controls that they thought a US ? cruise missile was incoming to a civilian International airport ? (based on google)

Let us remember ? Lieutenant Colonel Stanislav Petrov back in 1983.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-24280831
 
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