tyre choices

hobot said:

That is quite a dangerous statement to make hobot, considering peeps on here may take your word as knowledge rather than opinion!
Considering the possible insurance consequences as in " using tyres not fit for or recommended for purpose" perhaps you could tone it down a bit or alternatively moderate your statements as your OWN OPINION.
Cheers JohnT

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Ha that's a good one for folks who ride un-tamed Cdo's that are about the most dangerous bikes to seek limits on, whoowhoowee. Just try and find some facts on this tire vs rim size deal. Info is out there in what has been done and what might even be an issue to worry about on seeming too wide a tire on too narrow a rim. Tires can make or break cycle handling but there's confusion about tire handling upsets that ain't related to a tire's traction. I've ridden the snot out of this supposed bad practice and will again for planned bike shoot outs in the tightest quarters. You or others may not like the handling sense of more rounded profit is all but it ain't gonna hurt ya by blow up or ripping off. What is bad dangerous advice from me is pressing to find differences in various tire limits that are traction related on lower and lower and higher and higher air pressure. Just takes setting a low angle on hi throttle and good sense of what ya want out of life.

Tire width means study of thermodynamics, patch shape involves tribology and elastic deformation spring hysteria study. Impressive as those 190 tires look when ya see em burn out or wet run there's still only about 1.5" wide patch doing the business. Any way if ya ever can snag a ride on non DOT race soft compound - they are the cat's meow for secure stuck down feeling. Don't be fooled by a sitting still patch, it narrows up at speed, which I like.

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What ever it is you are saying does not negate the potentially dangerous and potentially life threating advice.
By all means go ahead and break your own neck, just don't advise others it good advice to follow also!
JohnT

Long overdue, John. Long overdue.

No defense against reflex naysayers that don't have all the manufactures facts nor any experience to go by but hear say. As usual the messenger gets shot just delivering contrary news as if I was the one just making up stuff like a big loud fool in public. Take it up with Avon and their 130 rear that fits on a WM3 which was used to show road texture abrasion on one of Ken Canaga's racers now fitted to Ms Peel. So in competitive spirit I dare ya'll safety officers to actually to tell us what is so risky I get such excited slap backs. Took me a while to come to grips myself doing this, but as I did check around, I'm quite happy to continue w/o your approval while leaving a trail of dying riders trying to follow me.

Edupantxi said:

Hi again....well... As far as fitting a new and different tyre is not a matter that you can't go back to your favorite ones, i've finally ordered them. 100-90-19 for the front and 110-90-18 for the rear. First impression is that is a ver y rigid tyre whith a very nice rubber. It seems to be difficult to fit them in to the rims. Next week i will do it and let you know my feelings whith them. Having a look at them, the first thing i notice is that they are a very different tyre from the ones i've been using till now.(dunlops bridgestones and pirellis)
I forgot to tell you that i am riding wm3 front rim and wm4 rear.
I will tell you all my feeling whith the contis....bye

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Sorry to hijack your thread Edu
it is always good to have another alternative and I look forward to your report on these new tyres, I did have a quick around at prices, they seem a little high yet but I guess market forces will bring them more into line with the Avons I normally use. How did your prices compare?
Cheers
JohnT

For the over excited safety minded that accuse me of dangerous advice, please realize before I knew what I was doing both my Combats came with 110 tires fitted both ends and worked great and didn't come off rims with slow leaks that tore tube to blow out surprises. I've enough flats on over sized rear now w/o the bead clamp fitted to not bother with it no more but it is bad dangerous practice as had one come off the rim but was my fault not making sure the bead was evenly seated all around. I 'recently' tried the tire size wisdom spouted here to fit 100 on front on factory Trixie to find its not any lighter to steer but definitely more insecure on braking and wearing faster in center than the sides like my 110's. I've had 3 flats on same 120 dual thread tire fitted to WM3 rear on both Peel and Trixie, ie: rode it flat miles on THE Gravel about flipping me off bike wobbles/feet out but stayed on rim and rode fine soon after. Its still got meat on its hard 'cleats' but its so beaten up on last 4th flat in beads and casing cords I'm pensive to use it up for fear it will develop case distortions at speed that could fling me off by on setting wobble/hinging. I've a brand new never ridden on 100-19" Avon RoadRider fitted to Peel's WM2 in living room I now don't want even for Trixie, so available at a bargain if anyone interested. When Trixie soon uses up the new 100 on front I'm fitting the aged 110's I've collected as better security especially on braking.

Still waiting to hear the real issues of fitting an over size recommended tire. There is a reason but its nothing to do with it coming off rim or upsetting handling or anything a Commando power street bike in public likely to ever encounter.

Here ya go - why don't you scream to the world how stupidly dangerous this long seasoned Norton fella is, who has tested bigger tire/rim *mis-match* than po ole hobot. Fact is if ya can fit the tire on the rim then its quite workable and some even like it better that way going at it harsh as possible, so I await to see if my false accusers are brave enough to apologize or admit they ain't got the scope on tires me and others do. There are issues but not related to rubber profile meating surfaces. if ya dare to press to top end speed you may find what fits at home doesn't on the fly.
>=======hobot=========


Re: The P11 thread postby OldForge » Sat Sep 07, 2013 5:59 am

grandpaul wrote:WM3 & WM4 sound too wide...


They are. On the P11 the rear tire enters the recess in the oil tank on rear suspension compression. On my VMX P11, I'm using a 130/80-18 on a WM3 & the tire has split the oil tank twice. Each time I've taken successively larger wedges out of the rear wall before welding up...opened it up by about 1/4" now & I'm OK, but the oil tank is the 1st limit to tire size you'll run into. The next will be the chain run. To use the 130/80-18 I have to reduce the drive side knobs with a belt sander or they catch the chain.

Interesting thread this one. Here in the UK it used to be accepted the norm that different tyre width fittings (usually one size up or down) will fit and be fine to be used, sadly, the lawyers have learnt from those across the pond that there is money to be made from lawsuits. Here in the UK Avon only stipulate the Roadrider 100 / 90 19 to be fitted to the Commando according to their website, surprising, as they still make a tyre that was acceptable for years, but don't list it as an alternative to the Roadrider. It is also the tyre they say can be fitted with a tube, whereas other Roadriders in the range can not be fitted with a tube according to Avon. Other tyre manufacturers refuse to advise on the suitability of a tyre because of the legal issues involved - if it is not in their approved fitting list = no is usually the answer.
Like anything, the advice from the manufacturer is mostly probably the optimum tyre for all conditions, and thus as some have expressed may not be the best tyre for the road surface and riding style to be experienced.

Having had a Citroen C5 VTR diesel Auto in the UK, I had no end of tyre fitters refusing to fit the tyres I wanted, and MOT queries regarding the legality of the tyres fitted until I told them to check the tyre manufacturers website for clarification.

When the lovers of rules start interfering with motorcycling, it is time to give it away. Remember this ? : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghA7tIBVBwU - WELL,FORGET IT !

After looking into the tire/wheel "thing" forever I finally came to a decision and this is what CNW is building for me right now:

Front = WM3 X 19 shouldered rim, straight 8G SS spokes, 100/90-19 Avon Roadrider
Rear = WM3 X 19 shouldered rim, straight 8G SS spokes, 100/90-19 Avon Roadrider

Since I had new Michelin Airstop tubes Matt is using them.
FAR AND AWAY the best handling bike I have ever ridden was my '73 850 with properly sorted ISO's and matching wheels/tires!

Vince

Refreshing reality rider MadNorton. Still leaves ill-flavored undeserved remarks implying I have not yet stopped dragging my dog around by its collar on trailer hitch. If not better weight to power than most Commandos the 120 size becomes a bit sluggish boot like feeling and a 130 would flat be counter productive to ease of handling and throttle response, though mileage likely double if ya lean enough to get some use near rim. The absolute only issue of larger than average tire fitted to a rim is the change in heat distribution on wear contact bands. So if one is not sustaining exceeding the heat and speed and weight rating of a tire then there is no other issue but how it feels and wears. Fact is bigger the tire the more heat it can take and spread out, not that much more traction or handling upset wise other wise.

Here's 120/WM3 mounted on Trixie and Peel's 130/WM3 next to it.


Ponder Peel's 130/WM3 combo contract patch [dust area] w/o me on it and its "too peaked or rounded profile... hehe note 308 cordless drill muzzle blast.

". Here in the UK Avon only stipulate the Roadrider 100 / 90 19 to be fitted to the Commando according to their website, "

The Avon chart I looked at showed 100/90/19 Roadrider as needing wm3 rims minimum, so they are not an approved fit on stock wm2 commando rims. I would like to run the Roadriders but my mk3 has wm2s stock front and rear. To stay within the approved specs and decent sized tires with a good load rating, the rims will get changed to wm3 x19 front and wm3x18 rear this winter. This way a 100/90/19 can go on front and a 4.00x18 at rear(big tire, not far off a 120/90/18. The 4.00x18 has a 64 load rating, which is needed if you ever carry a passenger. It also will look great on there.
Glen

ludwig said:

worntorn said:

". and wm3x18 rear ..

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WM 4 x 18 rear would be better ..

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I am very pleased with a WM-4x18 rear. If your going to spend the money anyway, WM-4 is a better choice.

Depending on which front fender you have, the wm3 rim might foul the earlier chrome plated, but might clear the stainless later version. Be a shame to spend money for the change then not fit.

OK for those using wider rims what is it you are able to detect that makes it a better deal to recommend over factory rim size?
Would it be enough to notice if wheels switched out w/o knowing which was on before pressing em? How could ya tell?

Narrow tires on wide rims = flatter profile = wider contact patch.

In my experience the "wider rear tire" deal does help with wide, heavy bikes but that is NOT a Commando!

Vince

Unclviny said:

In my experience the "wider rear tire" deal does help with wide, heavy bikes but that is NOT a Commando!

Vince

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I agree!
Just to add a little discourse :twisted: , here's what I'm running on my Hondapotamus right now:




Yeah, that's a car tire! A Goodyear TripleTred.
I know everyone says that it can't/shouldn't be done. That we are gonna crash and burn, but with just over 70,000 miles on the darkside , it hasn't happened yet.
The thread about speed wobble caused by a flat rear and round front? never experienced it. even to the WFO point.

Shinko may be a cheap brand motorcycle tire, but it sticks good and lasts a long time!

Regular Ol' Dunlop TT100's on the Norton.

Alrightty Mark I too want to ride the dark side on Ms Peel if I can find decent sports car tire in 16" x 5" size. I see darksiders freq. in our twisted area and to a man think think the rest don't know what they are missing out on, handling braking mileage and cost. Peel is meant to tease balloon tire elites into their bad handling limits so don't know if the car tire would work further over than baggers do. If real life though I couldn't survive in racer mode so reality is daily life on Peel would be for the nice dragster hook up and flat resistance and mileage with parking lots burn outs and such.

Still waiting to know how those recommending wider rims experience its benefits. [besides more center mileage]

On my SuVee I ran 150 to 170 rears and liked the 170 better because it made me feel more racer like to wear to edges while the 150 was about terrorizing to tip over that much and not have the IOM type wobble weaves and loss of traction hit. In other words it took more skill and risk to get the faster turning the narrower tire allowed. I'm good enough on THE Gravel and tarmac to run into turns so harsh I don't depend on front traction but to help start a lean and help get back up, so definitely nil front traction with full power hook up so front is unloaded. Heck if ya got room/time ya can turn w/o any fork input and narrower tires make that easier to do.

I can sure tell wider tires help on THE Gravel turns with any power but for the life of me the non DOT race only balloon tires & brand new $350 worth of DOT Prelli Corsica's on my SV650 just couldn't take the loads Ms Peel could deliver on 120 WM3 / 110WM2 steel rim combo. It was quite good enough for me to take on anrgy sports riders and realize how freaking dangerous they all are on edges. So my logic says if my over size extra curved tires is more than enough for my cornering antics then fitting alloy rims in small widths should pay back even more on the less spun and sprung mass.

Perhaps it should be re noted that a WM3 is only a 2.15 inch rim and a WM4 a 2.5 inch rim.
Standard sizes on some other bikes of the period that used 100 fronts and 120 rears.

WM2 - 1.85" / 47 mm.
+ 7.6 mm (.29")
WM3 - 2.15" / 54.6 mm.
+ 8.9 mm (.35")
WM4 - 2.5' / 63.5 mm.

This is interesting to me tire behavior from others' perspectives around the world ... for mixed riding and pilot conditions. There is a Rokon video ad in here but they did not show anything I ain't done pretty well on Ms Peel but I have seen Rokons in action and demo's to know they can cross stuff Peel wouldn't even think about by creeping slow like a caterpillar so realistically only advantage is liquid storeage in tires that can float sideways if need be, ugh. I mean would ya ever want to climb over an oil drum or VW beetle besides me even if ya could? I am still confused on tire combo when going fast enough to make good tarmac loose at groomed Gravel in the turns... More a discussion on rim/tire diameters than rim/tire fit but some sense on that too in here...

often wondered how the US-Boys could ride these big brit-bikes in the sand with those chunky front-tires in 18 and 19''-size. I would expect these fronts to weave all over the place ... still hope this thread gives the answer to this (motorcycle-)life-long question of mine ...

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http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=842867

Can anyone pick out the apparently glaring errors aaracing has charted on rim and tire sizes.
http://aaracing.com/
http://aaracing.com/tire_technical_information.aspx