TVS Motor Company acquires Britain's 'Norton' sporting motorcycle

MAK said:
Excuse my naievity but if SG sold the 961 to the Chinese & was it his to sell!
How can TVS hope to carry on with the 961?
Concerned owner who likes his 961 more than life itself !
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I think we he point is that legally it may not have been his to sell. If the company was under the rules of a WUP at the time, it seems the sale may not have been legal.

I imagine the buyer isn’t just gonna roll over without a fight though, so this could result in lengthy legal wrangling. Just another SG legacy eh!?

But also, the sale was not for the 961, it was for the 961 engine.
 
MAK said:
Excuse my naievity but if SG sold the 961 to the Chinese & was it his to sell!
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It was not his to sell but he did but engine only, HRMC raised a Wind Up Petition before the date of the rights sale, the raising of a WUP stops all asset sales so any sale after that point is open to dispute and the Tax man is tenacious in getting his pound of flesh (it was his WUP after all).
 
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Sounds like TVS have bought Norton and plan to continue with the current line up of bikes. If they want to command the high value price tag £15 - £45k then in some way the bike will need to be built or at least assembled in the U.K. in a way that foreign owned premium brand car companies such Rolls Royce, Bentley, McLaren and Aston do. Perhaps the 650 Atlas will be made in India but already the benchmark has been set very low by the RE Interceptor at £5.3k in the U.K.for a retro bike although a bit more basic.
 
Stephen_Spencer said:
As with anybody, I can only speak for myself. My purchase was about patriotism and heritage, above all else. I suspect many others on this forum feel the same. The fact that it’s bloody gorgeous helps of course. I care where my bike was made and by whom it was made. Despite all that has occurred I am delighted that I have the (somewhat flawed) 961 in my garage and will be even more so if manufacture were to go overseas. Long live Norton.
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The patriotism factor may apply to us old farts who are, generally speaking, unlikely to buy new motorbikes, and for this reason not relevant to the Indian buyers of the Norton brand. Ducati's Triumphs and Benelli's (and probably several others) are made in Asian countries today, does anyone think that this has a negative impact on the sales ? The younger motorbike buying public knows that it's a global economy today and do not care a s**t where their bikes are made. I like Nortons for what they are, although being from the Neterlands Britain is a foreign country for me, so no patriotism was involved here.
 
Peter R said:
The patriotism factor may apply to us old farts who are, generally speaking, unlikely to buy new motorbikes, and for this reason not relevant to the Indian buyers of the Norton brand. Ducati's Triumphs and Benelli's (and probably several others) are made in Asian countries today, does anyone think that this has a negative impact on the sales ? The younger motorbike buying public knows that it's a global economy today and do not care a s**t where their bikes are made. I like Nortons for what they are, although being from the Neterlands Britain is a foreign country for me, so no patriotism was involved here.
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I have many happy memories of attending Norton rallies in Holland or to be correct the Netherlands.
Some of my Dutch & Belgium friends are more patriotic towards Norton than a lot of English people.
 
Peter R said:
The patriotism factor may apply to us old farts who are, generally speaking, unlikely to buy new motorbikes, and for this reason not relevant to the Indian buyers of the Norton brand. Ducati's Triumphs and Benelli's (and probably several others) are made in Asian countries today, does anyone think that this has a negative impact on the sales ? The younger motorbike buying public knows that it's a global economy today and do not care a s**t where their bikes are made. I like Nortons for what they are, although being from the Neterlands Britain is a foreign country for me, so no patriotism was involved here.
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Well I guess I'm firmly in old fart territory, but I most definitely haven't stopped buying new bikes (although I do keep telling myself the next one had better be good, because it may be my last!)

I've always tended to buy bikes with my heart though so the positive aspect for me of Triumphs now being manufactured abroad is that the heart now doesn't come into buying one and I can be much more objectively critical!

I'm currently looking at the Speed Twin and the Kawasaki Z900RS (plus a few other makes). Haven't had any test rides yet, because of the current situation, but I've sat on both machines. They both look good but the Speed Twin felt weird to me. Bike felt dinky, pegs far too high, clocks seemed miles away and the seat felt flat and hard (what is it about seat foam in modern bikes, is it really that costly to provide?) Also no way of fitting centre stand. Couldn't fault Z900RS - but need to test ride.

I might also say that, having been quite a few times, I love the Netherlands, the culture and the people. So much so, it doesn't really seem foreign to me. If you made motorcycles, I could be interested!
 
alwaysal said:
I'm currently looking at the Speed Twin and the Kawasaki Z900RS (plus a few other makes). Haven't had any test rides yet, because of the current situation, but I've sat on both machines. They both look good but the Speed Twin felt weird to me. Bike felt dinky, pegs far too high, clocks seemed miles away and the seat felt flat and hard (what is it about seat foam in modern bikes, is it really that costly to provide?) Also no way of fitting centre stand. Couldn't fault Z900RS - but need to test ride.
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I like both bikes as well but for different reasons. The Speed Twin for it's overall adherence to the parallel twin britbike appearance. The Kawa due to the fact that I had a 903 Z1 back in the day, and loved the performance.

But I agree 100% with the revulsion for seats on modern Thiaumphs. For me they are too hard, too thin, as though the company had to save money and just provided a plank for the owner to sit on. My Hinckley T100 had a stock seat that was like a skin stretched over a concrete slab. I replaced it with a Berton Bike Bits DS003 classic seat, and it is wonderful. The new seat made the T100 a RAD (Ride All Day) bike for me.

I tested the Speed Twin seat in the showroom and found the same problem, plus the low height of the seat top, and high pegs creates an issue for my knees. So before I buy a SpeedTwin I have to have a replacement seat available. None is at the moment.
I was pissed to find out from a salesman that the T120 seat will not fit the Speed Twin.
No one in the Thiaumph engineering Dept could foresee that taller riders might want to mount the T120 seat on their SpeedTwin for knee relief????
WTF?
 
BritTwit said:
I like both bikes as well but for different reasons. The Speed Twin for it's overall adherence to the parallel twin britbike appearance. The Kawa due to the fact that I had a 903 Z1 back in the day, and loved the performance.

But I agree 100% with the revulsion for seats on modern Thiaumphs. For me they are too hard, too thin, as though the company had to save money and just provided a plank for the owner to sit on. My Hinckley T100 had a stock seat that was like a skin stretched over a concrete slab. I replaced it with a Berton Bike Bits DS003 classic seat, and it is wonderful. The new seat made the T100 a RAD (Ride All Day) bike for me.

I tested the Speed Twin seat in the showroom and found the same problem, plus the low height of the seat top, and high pegs creates an issue for my knees. So before I buy a SpeedTwin I have to have a replacement seat available. None is at the moment.
I was pissed to find out from a salesman that the T120 seat will not fit the Speed Twin.
No one in the Thiaumph engineering Dept could foresee that taller riders might want to mount the T120 seat on their SpeedTwin for knee relief????
WTF?
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The difficulty is that ideally you would want to try a replacement seat before you buy the bike because, although it may help your knees, it could then present another problem to your wrists/back with an altered seat/handlebar relationship. I replaced the plank on my Bonneville Scrambler with a Triumph gel plank - but it's only marginally less uncomfortable.

The thing that surprised me about the Z900 is when I recently saw one on the road I had to do a double-take because I thought for a moment I'd seen an original Z900. The manufacturers have not been afraid to fit such things as mono-shock suspension, cast wheels and siamesed exhausts (I love 'em, make bikes look so much sleeker) - so in theory it should look nothing like the old model - but amazingly it does!

Triumph have just built a retro twin, which didn't need to look like anything else (certainly not the original Speed Twin)- so in many respects they could have been much bolder with the specs. Having said that, it's still a good looking machine, although I would have to change those silencers!
 
Fast Eddie said:
Patriotism per say isn’t the issue here, especially in a global market.

But, for some brands, country of origin IS part of brand ide tity


The Speed Twin looks GOOD with the Gunfighter seat ...
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Would look even better on a 961, or even a Norman Hyde single to match my Hinckley Triumph. I like the look of the hump covering.
 
The Indian market is huge and quite different than USA and Europe. There would be little reason for them to retain the V4. Even the 650 may be questionable considering it’s not really a Norton product except the design. If Norton actually owns the rights to the engine then maybe it will continue. Who knows what SG sold in the waning moments. The 961 engine rights were sold so not likely to come back. My guess is there will be completely new motorcycles under the Norton name. The sale price is the name and brand and nothing else.
 
alwaysal said:
The thing that surprised me about the Z900 is when I recently saw one on the road I had to do a double-take because I thought for a moment I'd seen an original Z900. The manufacturers have not been afraid to fit such things as mono-shock suspension, cast wheels and siamesed exhausts (I love 'em, make bikes look so much sleeker) - so in theory it should look nothing like the old model - but amazingly it does!

Triumph have just built a retro twin, which didn't need to look like anything else (certainly not the original Speed Twin)- so in many respects they could have been much bolder with the specs. Having said that, it's still a good looking machine, although I would have to change those silencers!
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Kawasaki did a super job on the Z900 using the blacked out engine to hide modern components and the throttle bodies from the eye. They wanted buyers to see the shape of the tank, the color and styling of the tank, the ABS tail section/side covers, old style saddle, and instruments only.
It works for me, even though having been a Z1 owner, my eyes immediately were drawn to a lack of cooling fins on the engine, modern throttle bodies, monoshock frame. Frankly, if the Speed Twin and the 961 were not around, I'd have the Z900 in my garage.
The 110 HP doesn't hurt either.:p
 
dennisgb said:
The Indian market is huge and quite different than USA and Europe. There would be little reason for them to retain the V4. Even the 650 may be questionable considering it’s not really a Norton product except the design. If Norton actually owns the rights to the engine then maybe it will continue. Who knows what SG sold in the waning moments. The 961 engine rights were sold so not likely to come back. My guess is there will be completely new motorcycles under the Norton name. The sale price is the name and brand and nothing else.
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TVS could introduce the Comanche 961 to compliment their Apache line of motorcycles.
 
BritTwit said:
Yes it does look OK, but I prefer the late 60's - early - 70's look of the DS003.
Classically cool.
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I agree with you there. But if a seat is going to keep you from riding a bike well..............
the Corbin is good alternative look.
 
I always wondered what was in the minds of the manufactures when they offered "comfort seats" as an option. "Oh no I definitely what the discomfort seat"o_O
 
I think that’s quite simple:

A) they look ‘trendy’ in the showroom, helps sales and profits
B) they make even more profit by saving money on such a simple seat
C) they make EVEN more profit when they sell you a comfort seat.

That’s a win-win-win for the manufacturer !!
 
Fast Eddie said:
I think that’s quite simple:

A) they look ‘trendy’ in the showroom, helps sales and profits
B) they make even more profit by saving money on such a simple seat
C) they make EVEN more profit when they sell you a comfort seat.

That’s a win-win-win for the manufacturer !!
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Unfortunately, I agree with you.
Hook 'em on the appearance, then fleece them on the accessories.
 
oldbeezer said:
I always wondered what was in the minds of the manufactures when they offered "comfort seats" as an option. "Oh no I definitely what the discomfort seat"o_O
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The trick is that the first time buyer, who hasn't ridden a motorcycle any distance will not be able to tell that the seat is horrible until he takes the bike home, or for a long ride. Then he has no choice but to change the seat.
And his friendly dealer will be there to provide him a sensible solution, at a reasonable price, right?:D
 
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