Trying to revive a 1973 Roadster

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GUTS said:
It's connected to the brown/blue wire that would come from the negative battery terminal,
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OK well, the meter probes are reversed in the photos, although I'm not sure how it affects the reading of that particular type of meter, some meters would show a negative reading.
 
Could also be the infamous kill button not making electrical contact. For the juice to flow the kill button has to be making solid electrical contact. Should be the lower right handlebar switch cluster button. You might just play with it pushing several times just to see if it helps make contact.
 
ok
this is what it looks like to me
1) alligator from + battery to ignition switch (Br/Blue)
2) switch "on"
3) red VOM to hot side of switch
4) black VOM lead to - battery:
is so that leg of switch is good

What needs to be done:
1) + battery to good ground on frame and engine
2) - battery to fuse (new blade type)
3) fuse to ignition switch (br/blue)
4) hot side of switch to points/coils ( I don't have a wiring diagram to tell you exactly what wires)

or skip 3 and 4 and
5) - battey to points/coil

I think the problem is you are missing a ground to battery.
 
Torontonian said:
O.My. Gawd. Reversed battery leads can also toast the rectifier in an instant. Good eyeballs. Whole new can o' worms. :|
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Yup. Even though the OP clearly states in the first post, "positive ground", the images clearly show the fuse on the positive side of the battery, which is incorrect.

OP, just a recap, the batteries positive terminal is connected to RED wires, NO fuse, and to the chassis/red wires in harness ground. The negative terminal should be connected to the BROWN wire, with a fuse 3" away, and continue on brown/blue stripe to the harness.
 
Deets55 said:
ok
this is what it looks like to me
1) alligator from + battery to ignition switch (Br/Blue)
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Only, GUTS has said it was in fact connected to battery negative.



Deets55 said:
2) - battery to fuse (new blade type)
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If blade fuses are used instead of the British 1-1/4" glass type 35A "blow" rated fuses, then GUTS needs a "15A" - "20A" (continuous rated) fuse.

concours said:
Even though the OP clearly states in the first post, "positive ground", the images clearly show the fuse on the positive side of the battery.
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But he's said it isn't, (and I don't think the images show it at all clearly, that's why I asked for clarification).
GUTS said:
It's connected to the brown/blue wire that would come from the negative battery terminal, I replaced the fuse holder with the alligator clipped wire.
Click to expand...
 
With you 100% Les.
What GUTS didn't say was were the ground wires completely attached and tested.
I have a tough enough time trying to explain this stuff verbally, let alone in text form. That's why I kind of put it in a check list format. If all those items are met, then we can move on to next set. I've been running a Boyer for the past 20 odd years so I would have to research the coils,ballast resistor, points mess. At the moment I don't know why there is no spark with a jumper installed.
Pete
 
Deets55 said:
What GUTS didn't say was were the ground wires completely attached and tested.
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Yes, the other ends of the battery positive wires need to be grounded securely (at the head steady).
 
The wad of red wires that goes to the positive side of the battery is connected tightly on the top of the head with a cap screw. If the zener diode is faulty will it cause the problem I have?
 
GUTS said:
If the zener diode is faulty will it cause the problem I have?
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Doubtful, but you could check by disconnecting the spade connector from the Zener terminal and then re-test.
 
GUTS said:
Matt Spencer said:
Very Nice . Correct to maintain its original paintwork on the tinware . :D

If I were me , Id just WIRE DIRECT for the moment , then get out the Continuity Meter . ! :x :evil: :wink:

The wires from the points to the coils are left conected , see theres a earth , and hook a battery to coils ;
there then should be a spark at the points , if you interfere with them with a screwdriver . With a sharp crack ,
acoustically speaking , as they spark .
' We ' are most particular that the spark is at the SAME degrees , both cylinders . A strobe helps but not essential .

The 73 should be a good rorty rip snorting missile . Particularly if the carbs are 32's . But we wont mention Carbs ,
AT THIS STAGE .
:lol:

ANYWAY , theres likely to be spiders & bogymen in the electrical switch contacts . So stripping switchgear and Ign.
switch , cleaning contacts and setting silly little copper contact arms square & true gets them going . the wirings
actually quite good , and unlikely to be a problem unless its chaffed & bared , or hardened and cracked - LIKE where
it comes out of the alternator stator through the Hot Oil . Chopping & soldering & sealing with epoxy theres a good fix.
oftimes the points to coil wires a cracked ( isulation ) too , so bare close inspection .

A wire & bulb connected through a battery will tell you if any wire has continuity or is out to lunch . the COLOUR CODE
is standard British Pre Euro standard , so any lucas cattledog gives the whos what to where .

Now , with a 2S cam , decent valve springs and decent carbs , with a mild port job , you could scare youself silly , brake
all the speed limits , and ponder the Frame Ridgidity . So obviously deserves to be left as made . Bar some decent carbs & valve springs ,
decent ignition , a 1/2 bore matster cylinder & a decent head steady . :mrgreen: :p Iso's at 3 to 5 thou. clearance stop it weaveing
like a Kawasaki .

Should fire off in a few swings . ENGAGE the Kick Start Pawl , and push through . booting it into engaugement can chip the pawl . :(
then theres pawl chips in the gearbox . :shock:

If your not a Towney , a 22T sprockets more like the idea .
Sorry to here he kicked the bucket , glad to see the Commando endures .
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Well, at the risk of being blasphemous and possibly kicked off the board already, I have to admit that I am a Kawasaki guy(but I don't get the weaving part :wink: ), I have 16 bikes and 13 are Kawasaki triples. I just finished restoring this one in July. :mrgreen: :wink:
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RIGHT , You'd BETTER Do That , THEN . Then you could sell all the kwakersickies and Get More NORTONS , and Know FAST . :D :wink:

:twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :mrgreen:

The olde MkV 750 is as good as any , and better than most , for a starting point .
Maybe all the roads are flat , in your neck off the woods . :p A Kawasaki fiend
who says he has no bothers also tells off needing two lanes on a choppy back road
at 115 & eventually dropped it , thought you had to ' fight it ' and it faught back . !

Deadly serially though , you can get a 750 fair hauling - though the torsional ridgidity isn't 1000 % .

Bleedy Rectifiyers usually feel to bits , on the average triumph , at least .
Zener ( wots ' Zen ' about that :? ) can go feral . Is a ' excess voltage ' dump ' device . Should produce heat - hence the heat sink .
At 12 Volts it should do NAUGHT - Non Conduct . About 14 V it progressively ' wastes ' current .

should have no bothers once your dialed in , with a Commando , if you've mastered the Kwackers . Though they've their own idiosycracies .

heres a source of Oracles ; http://www.classicbike.biz/
 
With the REST of the wires DISCONECTED at the Coil whofandagle - fudge a earth & live feed - the points MUST SPARK .

Often a chap will wire the sod from scratch ; theory being that its RIGHT and theres NO PROBLEMS , therefore it takes
half the time . The nasty internals of the switchblocks Need Inspection . the Ignition Switch is Dubious - Thus the
5 minute all purple wire loom often found in Triumphs & BSA's . Norton they usually use more than one colour !

New Looms are cheap - or a Hillman Hunter has GOOD wire & fittings to purloin , if you enjoy being creative and use the colour codes .

Solid State rectifiers a replacement for the enfeebled heath robinson job .At least it hasn't goot a Electric Start . :D :x :lol: :p :oops:
 
aceaceca said:
You my friend are under dire threat of a Kawakazi attack. You better get that Norton out of there fast. Where are you located. I think you need some electrical assistance. Besides your test meter you need a can of Lucas Blue Smoke. The wires look very new and shiny. Is that a new loom you have there?
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Yea , I think it must be all the Gremlins slipping of the Kawaskis and lodgeing in the Norton . :wink:

Literally my Bonneville rejected Jap. Parts . Pillion Footrests would unscrew and tail light assembly , so youd constantly retighten
and eventually loose parts . Final Replacement with Good British Bits had them home and secure . :D Aus. Triumph 750s used to disintegrate Jap. Batterys , where the pommy ones stayed together , they just leaked oil . this Stopped Them RUSTING . :) ( :roll: :oops: )

The Blitish stuff has a differat fen shu , or whatever , Don't worry - youll soon find yourself talking to it , looking to see if anythings underneath
and sitting feet up in a chair , beer in hand , absorbed in its marvles and wondering why anyone would do a motorcycle any different .

Heres the ultimate illiteration of the 75 Norton 750 . Most of these new fangled superbikes copy parts the Original NORTON 750 superbikes
pioneered .
Trying to revive a 1973 Roadster
 
+1 Matt
Hot wire coils, make new dedicated ground and make sure wires to points are good (and points open and close properly). You have to get something.
(Bad condensers cause no spark at this point anyone?)
 
Torontonian said:
Bypass and hotwire. Clean up groundpoint to frame. Get to work.
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Didn't I say that back on the first page?
 
When I brought my 1976 Kawasaki LTD home and put it in the garage with my FLTC, the FLTC wouldn't start for the first time in 13 years. :wink: I have restored a few bikes and wiring is basically wiring but if you are not familiar with the particular system it take a little bit to figure it out. Where is a switch diagram so I can tell what is supposed to be on and when? Probing around with no values, correct colors, or the correct diagram makes it a little tougher yet. I unplugged both connections from one of the coils and attached the battery directly to it, turned the engine over about 20 times and saw no spark at the points. I know this could be a bad coil but a bad coil won't make the rest of the system act as it is. When I saw the bad connection on the lower fuse wire I thought I had found the problem but I didn't. There is something very simple going on here and I will use the directions you fellows gave me and press on!
 
Deets55 said:
Guts,
You say there is power at the fuse. The next place to check is the ignition switch. One of the wire at the switch must show power with the switch in the off position. Connect one wire from your VOM to the positive side of your battery and probe the blades on your switch. If none of them test hot the problem is from the fuse to switch. If you get power @ the switch remove the VOM lead from the battery (positive side) and connect it to various ground points on the frame and engine If you still show voltage the problem is in the switch or wiring after the switch. If you don't get a reading then the problem is no ground from battery to frame/engine.
Reading a wiring diagram will not help you until you get power to the switch and a good ground back to the battery. I think this is where your problem is. I believe your switch is located near the battery so it should be a simple trace. From this point on you will need a wiring diagram to simplify matters. Hope this helps.
Pete
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When I put one of the meter leads on the plus(positive)terminal on the battery and the other to the various terminals on the back of the switch I get no voltage reading on any of them. When I put the meter lead on the minus(negative)terminal on the battery and touch the other lead to the back of the switch I get 13+ volts at all of the terminals on the back of the switch.
 
GUTS said:
Deets55 said:
Guts,
You say there is power at the fuse. The next place to check is the ignition switch. One of the wire at the switch must show power with the switch in the off position. Connect one wire from your VOM to the positive side of your battery and probe the blades on your switch. If none of them test hot the problem is from the fuse to switch. If you get power @ the switch remove the VOM lead from the battery (positive side) and connect it to various ground points on the frame and engine If you still show voltage the problem is in the switch or wiring after the switch. If you don't get a reading then the problem is no ground from battery to frame/engine.
Reading a wiring diagram will not help you until you get power to the switch and a good ground back to the battery. I think this is where your problem is. I believe your switch is located near the battery so it should be a simple trace. From this point on you will need a wiring diagram to simplify matters. Hope this helps.
Pete
Click to expand...

When I put one of the meter leads on the plus(positive)terminal on the battery and the other to the various terminals on the back of the switch I get no voltage reading on any of them. When I put the meter lead on the minus(negative)terminal on the battery and touch the other lead to the back of the switch I get 13+ volts at all of the terminals on the back of the switch.
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Shows the brown/blue circuit is open somewhere between the battery and the switch. Search (test) for it. Check for voltage at A) rectifier B) zener C) capacitor
 
DogT said:
Torontonian said:
Bypass and hotwire. Clean up groundpoint to frame. Get to work.
Click to expand...
Didn't I say that back on the first page?
Click to expand...

I have been trying, and I thought direct wiring the coils was kind of hot wiring. The way the battery is hooked up now, with the red wires from the head going to the plus terminal on the battery and the fused wire going to the minus terminal on the battery, I get 13+ volts all over the frame, engine, switch terminals, and anything else metal if I put one of the meter leads on the minus terminal of the battery and probe around. Isn't this backwards? Maybe I am misunderstanding the "positive ground" battery installation procedure. So is the non-electronic ignition, non-electric start, 2 coil 12v wiring diagram the one I need so I can see where the brown/blue wire goes in the harness?
 
GUTS said:
DogT said:
Torontonian said:
Bypass and hotwire. Clean up groundpoint to frame. Get to work.
Click to expand...
Didn't I say that back on the first page?
Click to expand...

I have been trying, and I thought direct wiring the coils was kind of hot wiring. The way the battery is hooked up now, with the red wires from the head going to the plus terminal on the battery and the fused wire going to the minus terminal on the battery, I get 13+ volts all over the frame, engine, switch terminals, and anything else metal if I put one of the meter leads on the minus terminal of the battery and probe around. Isn't this backwards? Maybe I am misunderstanding the "positive ground" battery installation procedure.
Click to expand...

That is correct.
 
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