Triumph question.

Another old mate of mine is the proud owner of a 79 Bonny. T140. ?
Has been a very proud owner of a 42 WLA and Dusting sidecar for long enough to have rebiult it twice.
Anyway, had to have the Triumph about 4 years ago, bought it from a very reputable Dealer in town, and was
in very nice condition, with rebiult engine.
He rode it once for about 25 klms, it frightened him, (he is 71) and has only ever started it in the shed, ever since.
He is the type of guy who fiddles with things, generally does a good job, is a good mechanical mind.
Any way he fitted an oil filter, (I would of thought they would have one,.. 79).
Today, out of the blue he decides to sell it, and when the guy came back from the test ride, there was oil coming out of
the crankcase everywhere.
The oil filter is plumbed to the return, or should I say it was, as it has been removed.
He seemed to think that the oil wasn't getting back to the tank quickly enough, via the filter.
I know it sounds like a blocked filter or bodgey plumbing but there wasn't an issue when starting the bike and warming it
up in the shed, only at constant revs.
Can anyone tell me if there is a known issue re oil filters on these engines.
Did he do the wrong thing.
It will be sold without the filter, as it didn't have one on when he bought it.
Thanks guys.
AC.

Without knowing a lot about T140s, it sounds like the engine had wet-sumped ? (oil drained into the sump) and when running it, the oil had no-where to instantly go and came out everywhere.
Not good, it opens future pathways for oil to escape, and can blow oil seals.

Draining the sump prior to starting gives an idea if this is a problem - more than a cupfull shows the oil is working its way down there. Providing the sump is not full though, rarely causes a problem.

So maybe nothing to do with the filter.
Don't T140s have oil-in-frame design ?
If the filter was blocked though, may give the same symptoms...

P.S. Does the oil-in-frame design allow for easily checking the oil level ?
If you can see the all oil has drained out, can drain the sump to prevent problems like this. ?

AussieCombat said:

Any way he fitted an oil filter

Click to expand...

What/which type of oil filter is it? I believe some spin-on oil filters include an anti-syphon (or, anti-drain back) valve? If the oil pipes had been connected to the filter unit the wrong way then the oil would not flow through that type of filter?

Rohan said:

Without knowing a lot about T140s, it sounds like the engine had wet-sumped ? (oil drained into the sump) and when running it, the oil had no-where to instantly go and came out everywhere.

Click to expand...

Oil drain down (what is often referred to "wet sumping" these days) is not a common problem for Triumph twins-unless the oil pump is badly worn or the feed pump one-way ball valve is jammed open.

Wet sumping (in the correct sense of the term when the scavenge system is unable to empty the sump) is more common in Triumphs and is often caused by a small piece of dirt or swarf becoming lodged in the scavenge pump one-way ball valve. If that happens (to either the feed or scavenge ball valve) then that particular side of the pump (feed or scavenge) stops working.

Rohan said:

Don't T140s have oil-in-frame design ?

Click to expand...

Yes.

Rohan said:

P.S. Does the oil-in-frame design allow for easily checking the oil level ?

Click to expand...

Yes.

Thanks Rohan thanks L.A.B.
Yes it is a spin on filter, just heading over there now on
my trusty Norton, to get the whole story.
AC.

OK, GOT THE STORY STRAIGHT NOW,
Oil wasn't coming out of the Crankcase everywhere as the original phone call to me suggested.
Oil was however coming quite steadily from the gallery through which the wires from the points
pass through the timing cover.
Nothing to do with the Oil filter or restrictions of any type, the return was good to the frame.
Soo I'm assumeing there is a Cam shaft seal in the Timing cover which has collapsed, and possibly a bit of
Crankcase pressure pushing Oil out. The only thing there with that idea is that there was only a little
oil in the points compartment. Then again oil does spread pretty well when it 's hot.
Surely the gallery through the timing cover is a solid affair from the points to the outside of the Crankcase ?,
meaning, oil can't get in there from the timing gears.
I'm useing the term 'Gallery' for want of a better word.
Next question.... After removing the points and backing plate, do the spring loaded weights
and their backing plate slide onto a tapered shaft or keyway or what.? And how do I get them off.
I'm sorry but his Triumph manual is missing.
If we can get the Timing cover off, then we can hopefully find the oil leak problem.
Thanks AC.

AussieCombat said:

Surely the gallery through the timing cover is a solid affair from the points to the outside of the Crankcase ?,
meaning, oil can't get in there from the timing gears.

Click to expand...

The Triumph timing cover arrangement is quite similar to a Commando.

AussieCombat said:

After removing the points and backing plate, do the spring loaded weights
and their backing plate slide onto a tapered shaft or keyway or what.?

I'm sorry but his Triumph manual is missing.

Click to expand...

Points? If it's a 1979 model, then it should have Lucas Rita electronic ignition with a pickup and reluctor in the "points" housing ? If it's got points (or it isn't actually a 1979 model you can use the '73-'78 manual and parts '78 book pdfs below:

http://www.classicbike.biz/Triumph/Repa ... Manual.pdf
http://www.classicbike.biz/Triumph/Part ... -Tiger.pdf

Thanks L.A.B.,
It appears to be a 78. Model.
Rear disc, a bolt up through the center of the tank, and twin Mk 2s.
AC.

Cam nose seal is easily replaced, just pull the timing cover and it is done by hand, no tools required.

He's an old fart, wants to take it to a local mechanic.
He can't afford that... $80.00 p.h.
How do I get that advance plate off.
thanks AC.

AussieCombat said:

How do I get that advance plate off.

Click to expand...

Exactly the same way as you would remove either an AAU or EI rotor from a Commando.

The Triumph book seems to lack this information although the AAU extractor tool 61-7023 is shown in the special tools section

I suggest you follow the instructions given in the Commando manual, section C16. http://britmoto.com/manuals/Manuals/750_man.pdf
If you don't have the Triumph tool or slide hammer you can screw a 5/16" UNF bolt into the AAU thread by a few turns and then tap the bolt head up-down-left-right which should free the AAU from the camshaft taper.

Jobs done, $6.00 and 1 1/2 hours and the bike is running.
On behalf of me old mate Merv, thankyou.
I talked him into coming for a ride, now he doesn't want to sell it.
Has anybody here fitted a sidecar to one, I think the Triumph would be a little
better than the WLA, If we could find him a 70s/80s Sidecar, for his Club runs.
A few things spring to mind... H.P., handleing, brakes.
I think the WLA has a hefty 7.5 H.P. coupled with the incredible 4.5/1 comp. ratio. and a large rock
on a bit of string to stop her., but she still pulls 2 people around at 50 mph.
Big Flywheels me thinks.
Thanks again.
AC.