To tweak or leave things alone? What's best? (2016)

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First off, hope those at the rally had a great time and will get home safe- as my son and I did last summer.
So my question is, when you acquire a Commando (I now have 4) and it's running pretty well, what's the best advice on how far to go to check things out? Of course one checks (or changes/adjusts) the basics (oil, plugs, tires/pressure, intake/exhaust clearance, alignment) and you probably want to tighten places where oil can exit - but where do you stop if it's running pretty well?

Here's my brief story: bought bike last summer. It was fully stock other than older Rita ignition. It ran pretty well but tires were old. This spring, of course it didn't start so went through carbs and put PowerArc Ignition/coil on from Old Britts (I have them on 2 other bikes and zero issues). BIke then starts and runs really well. OF course I then register and insure it, take it out and put 10 gentle miles on it. It's perfect. I check for anything loose. All good.

Yesterday I took it out for faster 25 mile loop with about 5 highway miles up to 70 mph then cruise back. I noticed at a stop light a little puff of smoke and figured it's a drip on exhaust pipe or whatever. Did not see anything leaking. 20 minutes later, pull into driveway, park it and see oil seeping pretty hard from front between head and barrel. So out comes the torque wrench and I go at it CAREFULLY. I'll add I am a decent mechanic - rebuilt my original '75 Mk III twice and other than the bottom end have done it all since high school. I was also a maintenance officer in the Army - so I will at least admit to not being 'dangerous' but never claim expertise.

Of course, the torque was screwed up on pretty much every bolt but the WORST THING was I broke one of the studs on the top front by the exhaust. So now a simple 30 minute job becomes hours to disassemble, take to shop, etc.

So my question is, should I have torqued the head sooner and possibly discovered this obviously failing stud last winter or would the majority vote for the saying "if it aint broke don't fix it?

I am pretty certain this was the source of my significant oil seepage as al three in front were not even close to spec. I estimate it broke at closer to 50 pounds . The good news is I'll now have the head off and can spend more money to have it gone over and probably ported, etc. And since the head's off, I will look at the cylinder walls... I hope my wife understands my addiction. Thanks for any advice... I have my eye on a local 750...

arbrnrngr
 
Your post made me smile, especially the part where you say "the good thing is I'll now have the head off"...!

I bought myself a perfectly good and well running Commando, I paid a fair price for it (I think), meaning it wasn't a bargain basement buy, but wasn't in the conkers bracket either.

I rode it for a little while...

Then I started tweaking and tinkering...

Then winter came...

Then I thought "I'll just take the head off, for a look-see" (as one does)...

Then, for several months, I seemed to hemerige time and money and energy like it was going out of fashion...

Then I had a perfectly good and well running Commando, again...!

Joking aside, I enjoyed the process immensely, learnt an awful lot, and am very happy with the end result (for the time being at least).

But knowing where to draw the line is a tough one!
 
arbrnrngr said:
I broke one of the studs on the top front by the exhaust. So now a simple 30 minute job becomes hours to disassemble, take to shop, etc.

I am pretty certain this was the source of my significant oil seepage as al three in front were not even close to spec. I estimate it broke at closer to 50 pounds.


Are you saying you were attempting to tighten them to somewhere near 50 lb.ft.? :shock:

The torque figure for the two (front upper) 5/16" studs/nuts is 20 lb.ft. and 30 lb.ft for the other 3/8" head fasteners.
 
arbrnrngr said:
I am pretty certain this was the source of my significant oil seepage as al three in front were not even close to spec. I estimate it broke at closer to 50 pounds .
arbrnrngr
That might be the problem right there? Seems like awfully high torque ?
 
triumph2 said:
arbrnrngr said:
I am pretty certain this was the source of my significant oil seepage as al three in front were not even close to spec. I estimate it broke at closer to 50 pounds .
arbrnrngr
That might be the problem right there? Seems like awfully high torque ?

I can't see that stud breaking , are you sure you haven't pulled the threads . And I think that might happen closer to thirty than fifty.
 
Surely you didn't torque it at 50 lbs that is way to much, hope you didn't torque your other Nortons at that settings even the bigger head bolts aren't that high, did you look up the specs before you torqued it down :?:

Ashley
 
It is better to check things regularly on our older bikes. Catching trouble early in the game is cheaper and safer.
I keep my bikes very clean and polished, it helps in keeping an eye on things.

As for what level of tweaking one should stop at, that is really just a case of how much money and time you have.
There is that seemingly irresistible urge for more power, better handling, better brakes etc but much of this depends
on where and how you ride. A fellow who lives in a more urban motorway sort of area will have a different level than
an old coot who lives in the countryside where the speed limit is more reduced and the longest straightaway only a few
hundred yards long.

I plead guilty to violating all of this and now potter about on a Commando that could easily be replaced by a BSA 250cc.
It isnt 1970 anymore. :-(
 
Good catch and my bad - I wrote the wrong torque setting - I also did rear wheel... hence the high value.
I actually had to check my wrench to make sure. Fortunately I was ok or that would have been interesting.
 
the rita does not play good with a single coil. it cannot dissipate the heat that twin coils can. the rita keeps the coil on for way to long and therefor cooks it. that coil does work well with a short dwell ign like the power arc, tri spark or pazon.

arbrnrngr said:
Rita ignition. It ran pretty well but tires were old. This spring, of course it didn't start so went through carbs and put PowerArc Ignition/coil on from Old Britts (I have them on 2 other bikes and zero issues).
 
First off, hope those at the rally had a great time and will get home safe- as my son and I did last summer.
So my question is, when you acquire a Commando (I now have 4) and it's running pretty well, what's the best advice on how far to go to check things out? Of course one checks (or changes/adjusts) the basics (oil, plugs, tires/pressure, intake/exhaust clearance, alignment) and you probably want to tighten places where oil can exit - but where do you stop if it's running pretty well?

Here's my brief story: bought bike last summer. It was fully stock other than older Rita ignition. It ran pretty well but tires were old. This spring, of course it didn't start so went through carbs and put PowerArc Ignition/coil on from Old Britts (I have them on 2 other bikes and zero issues). BIke then starts and runs really well. OF course I then register and insure it, take it out and put 10 gentle miles on it. It's perfect. I check for anything loose. All good.

Yesterday I took it out for faster 25 mile loop with about 5 highway miles up to 70 mph then cruise back. I noticed at a stop light a little puff of smoke and figured it's a drip on exhaust pipe or whatever. Did not see anything leaking. 20 minutes later, pull into driveway, park it and see oil seeping pretty hard from front between head and barrel. So out comes the torque wrench and I go at it CAREFULLY. I'll add I am a decent mechanic - rebuilt my original '75 Mk III twice and other than the bottom end have done it all since high school. I was also a maintenance officer in the Army - so I will at least admit to not being 'dangerous' but never claim expertise.

Of course, the torque was screwed up on pretty much every bolt but the WORST THING was I broke one of the studs on the top front by the exhaust. So now a simple 30 minute job becomes hours to disassemble, take to shop, etc.

So my question is, should I have torqued the head sooner and possibly discovered this obviously failing stud last winter or would the majority vote for the saying "if it aint broke don't fix it?

I am pretty certain this was the source of my significant oil seepage as al three in front were not even close to spec. I estimate it broke at closer to 50 pounds . The good news is I'll now have the head off and can spend more money to have it gone over and probably ported, etc. And since the head's off, I will look at the cylinder walls... I hope my wife understands my addiction. Thanks for any advice... I have my eye on a local 750...

arbrnrngr
Probably that bolt was already cracked and was not holding the head down properly. The best think is to replace all the bolts and studs with the stuff from Colorado Norton Works. Rita ignitions are really good, they use a lot of power, they are really reliable, except the connectors they come with that should all be binned. Probably the power arc is a lot better, but the Ritas are really good to.
 
You might consider yourself lucky. Better the stud breaks, than pulling out, as they sometimes do.
XTINCT is right about the CNW head bolt/stud kit. Might as well do it now. They allow stretch that corresponds to the the expansion of the head.

And yes, you shoulda torqued them up when you first got it...
AFter (if) you install the CNW kit, follow their instructions.

Jim Comstock (comnoz on this forum) knows a thing or 2 (gross understatement) about porting. Easy to screw this up completely with the "standard" approach.

EDIT: Jim Schmidt (jseng1 here) is also an obvious candidate to do the porting work. I shoulda mentioned him as well.
 
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Along with the bolt kit, get a good, three-angle valve job (new valves if required) and some beehive springs. Next time the head comes off the SS clone, it's getting that treatment.
 
Its really all about maintenance, doing regular maintenance is all about inspecting every nut and bolt, looking for things that are showing signs of wear and tear and replacing things that don't look right, lubing all moving parts, its easy for me as I have owned my Norton since new, converted it to the Featherbed frame in the early 80s doing all the work myself so I know every nut and bolt on my Norton, having this knowlege you get to know your bike, any sound that don't sound right or if something don't look right you always inspect and fix as soon as you can.
I have been blessed with my Norton it has alway been reliable, has never let me down, well only with a broken chain twice, once doing a burn out in the late 70s and just 2 years ago when it lost a joining link.
In 43 years of ownership my Norton has gone through a lot of changes, making it lighter, better suspension and mods to the motor for better get up and go, its all about what we love and twinking is all part of ownership and its the best way to get to know your Norton or any bike for that matter.

Ashley
 
I also paid a fair price for my norton, had to do an engine rebuild when a circlip escaped, and towards the end of the season re-torqued the head, one of the stud's next to the exhaust has pulled so the head has to come off to fix this, (helicoil? both?) and instead of the copper gasket I'm going back to the the STD type, hopefully to alleviate oil leaks, while its in bits i intend to fit a PCV valve into the breather line.

I hope this and modifying the seat to fit closer to the LR Tank will be all work bar maintenance that i have to do before summer, but already I'm looking into ways to improve things, better brakes etc, and now after reading in this thread i find myself looking at beehive valve springs......
 
I don't mind tweaking to improve things, but I've learned to do them one at a time. I don't go whole hog just for exercise.
 
I don't mind tweaking to improve things, but I've learned to do them one at a time. I don't go whole hog just for exercise.

Sod that...

All or nothing... shit or bust... death or glory...

You only live once. The sooner you do it the more you can enjoy it.
 
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