TLS front brake question

MikeG · May 14, 2020

I'm wondering if anyone has ever tried fitting a brake lever return spring such as used on the Norton rear drum brake to a TLS front brake? I'm having issues with the brake not releasing completely despite everything new from the shoes and springs right up to the handlebar lever. Even BSA/Triumph used such a spring on the 68 to 70 TLS brake.

dguzzi · May 14, 2020

Nice question, do you think there is to much friction in the cable?
I wait for replies with you.

acotrel · May 14, 2020

MikeG said:
I'm wondering if anyone has ever tried fitting a brake lever return spring such as used on the Norton rear drum brake to a TLS front brake? I'm having issues with the brake not releasing completely despite everything new from the shoes and springs right up to the handlebar lever. Even BSA/Triumph used such a spring on the 68 to 70 TLS brake.

If you are using a TLS drum front brake, you need to have a sense of humour. There are many ways it can get you. When the brake shoes drag as you accelerate around and out of a corner, the front of the bike stays down and steers you wide. Then you might have the joy of dodging trees. If you hold the brake on as you approach a corner and find it is not stopping you,, the linings can heat up and grab. - You get a closer look at the road. What you need is a pudding-basin helmet to go with the brake. Then you can pretend you are Geoff Duke.

Peavey Jeltz · May 14, 2020

If you haven't removed, cleaned and re-greased the brake cam shafts old dried up grease could be sticking things up.

Triton Thrasher · May 14, 2020

acotrel said:
If you are using a TLS drum front brake, you need to have a sense of humour. There are many ways it can get you. When the brake shoes drag as you accelerate around and out of a corner, the front of the bike stays down and steers you wide. Then you might have the joy of dodging trees. If you hold the brake on as you approach a corner and find it is not stopping you,, the linings can heat up and grab. - You get a closer look at the road. What you need is a pudding-basin helmet to go with the brake. Then you can pretend you are Geoff Duke.

I think an end should be put to this.

acadian · May 14, 2020

MikeG said:
I'm wondering if anyone has ever tried fitting a brake lever return spring such as used on the Norton rear drum brake to a TLS front brake? I'm having issues with the brake not releasing completely despite everything new from the shoes and springs right up to the handlebar lever. Even BSA/Triumph used such a spring on the 68 to 70 TLS brake.

Not the quite the same as the cam return spring on the 68-70 triumph brake, and I'm not really sure how much of an effect its actually has as the brake is freshly rebuilt w/new bushes, cams etc.

Triton Thrasher said:
I think an end should be put to this.

It was inevitable

Onder · May 14, 2020

I did same with spring pictured after a new brake install. Helped and after a few weeks the brake loosened up and the spring no longer needed. Worked for me anyway.

cliffa · May 14, 2020

acadian, I saw the initial pictures of your drum brake conversion, and was a bit alarmed at that bottom adjuster to lever cable run. I thought it was probably a test fit, so didn't comment, but now I see it again I urge you to try to get a straighter pull on that otherwise the cable won't last with potentially dire consequences. It's no wonder you've had to fit a return spring.

Triton Thrasher · May 14, 2020

cliffa said:
acadian, I saw the initial pictures of your drum brake conversion, and was a bit alarmed at that bottom adjuster to lever cable run. I thought it was probably a test fit, so didn't comment, but now I see it again I urge you to try to get a straighter pull on that otherwise the cable won't last with potentially dire consequences. It's no wonder you've had to fit a return spring.

It’s incompetent and dangerous.

MikeG · May 14, 2020

Everything is new-Madass shoes, springs, Venhill cable-cleaned and lubed with proper brake lube including cam faces, cam shafts, and pivot points. The pull on the cable is straight, the lever is free and well lubed at the pivot and the cable end. I had not thought of using a spring around the cable Cliffa, good idea. Was it off of a later (71/72) BSA triumph brake, and were you able to thread it on the cable without removing a cable end and resoldering?

dguzzi-no friction in cable at all
Tritothrasher-as to your first comment in this thread YES. Added nothing to the discussion.

acadian · May 14, 2020

cliffa said:
acadian, I saw the initial pictures of your drum brake conversion, and was a bit alarmed at that bottom adjuster to lever cable run. I thought it was probably a test fit, so didn't comment, but now I see it again I urge you to try to get a straighter pull on that otherwise the cable won't last with potentially dire consequences. It's no wonder you've had to fit a return spring.

The cable runs straight down to the lever, as you suspected that photo was taken during test fitting. I've since gone back to the disc brake.

Triton Thrasher said:
It’s incompetent and dangerous.

yikes

Triton Thrasher · May 14, 2020

I may be misunderstanding.

Is this your brake?
If so, it’s a mess.

acadian · May 14, 2020

Triton Thrasher said:
I may be misunderstanding.

Yes you are

Onder · May 15, 2020

Well I saw the cable situation but didnt comment. My cable is correctly positioned. No argument about the superiority of disc over drum for Commando. But it you drive conservatively and live in a rural area you will be fine.

Nortoniggy · May 15, 2020

Have you got chamfer on the leading edge of the brake shoes. It's a good idea on a twin leading shoe brake as they can be a bit "grabby". It may help with the stickiness too.

DogT · May 15, 2020

I know a lot of people trash talk the TLS, probably deservidely so, but for casual riding the TLS can be made to work much better than it probably came from the factory. If you want the info I'll find it, it's just a couple hours work. I didn't even use the stiffener plate, but yes it will always fade with hard fast braking. At least I don't have to drag my feet any more to stop.

cliffa · May 15, 2020

DogT said:
I know a lot of people trash talk the TLS, probably deservidely so, but for casual riding the TLS can be made to work much better than it probably came from the factory. If you want the info I'll find it, it's just a couple hours work. I didn't even use the stiffener plate, but yes it will always fade with hard fast braking. At least I don't have to drag my feet any more to stop.

Actually the first Commando I rode had "that" brake ( the brake that must not be mentioned ) , and I was quite impressed to be honest, however I was riding gently. The standard disc brake will fade as well (as we know), but i'd be interested in how you improved the yours.

Onder · May 15, 2020

If you are a hot shoe few drums can deal with repeated full on stops they simply get too hot. Hilly or mountain areas will be a problem. If you drive a disk bike and then go to a drum bike (not counting race bikes) it will be quite an eye opener.
I still like the 68-70 BSA Tri stopper it isnt a disk but close if you arent doing repeated applications.

DogT · May 15, 2020

Instead of trying to find the thread, what I did was first set up the lever so the shoes contact at the same time, then arc the shoes with #80 sandpaper glued to the drum. It may take a bit of working around the distances, like remove the clips for the cams. When you reach 90% shoe contact, chamfer the shoes, center the shoes in the drum by tightening down the brake, and then tighten the front axle. I did this with the front wheel off the floor and turning the wheel by hand to sand the shoes. It actually turned out more than I expected. But it still has to be set up correctly. I think these things will get you at least 80% to what it's capable of, the stiffener may help, can't say, never tried it.

I always remember when I was young, it was look ahead 3 miles to make sure I could stop, and then drag my feet to slow down, all the while shifting down. To me it was an eye opener, but when I was young I didn't know squat. Now I just can't remember it.

dynodave · May 15, 2020

In the pix, the cable aim is very bad. must be fixed...
I have done two of the reinforcing kits and one worked absolutely great.
The second kit steel plate holes did not line up that well with the new pins staked in the aluminum backing plate.
This high friction made much more drag therefore much more reluctant for the brakes to retract the very well lubed, well routed brake cable, based on the power of the originals shoe springs.

TLS front brake question

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