Tip for connecting kickstart to kickstart shaft

I suspect that this post will be a statement of the blindingly obvious to some members with a strong mechanical background, but it might be useful for some members who like me, blunder along and learn by doing everything three times. And at the risk of restating something that has already been posted, here goes.

I have read at least one thread recently where a member has had trouble with his kickstart. Maybe this tip might be of benefit.

The kickstart shaft has spines right around its perimeter to enable the kickshaft to grip on to it. The kickstart lever itself has a slot cut into it so that it can be tightened around the kickstart shaft with a bolt. The tip is to file off five or six splines of the kickstart shaft directly where the slot of the kickstart abuts the shaft. The benefit of this is that by taking away those few splines, you enable the bolt that goes through the kickstaff to tighten the kickshaft lever more around the shaft than would otherwise be the case; the effect of the splines is that they prevent keep the kickstaff lever in exactly the position that the splines dictate; by removing those few splines you allow the kickstaff lever to be tightened more - over that small area - than is the case if the splines are still there.

I was given this tip by Ken McIntosh, a Manx Norton guru who is something of a legend in New Zealand and I suspect internationally in Manx racing circles. His workshop is not too far from where I live, and I visited it last week to see if I could purchase two Amal screws which I needed for my brake lever. He had them in stock. For a great $6 purchase he spent about 20 minutes talking to me about different bolt and screw threads, which lead into the topic of kickstarts, and him giving me this suggestion, which he maintains should increase the life of the shaft and kickstart by some margin.

In case any one is interested in visiting his site it is http://www.manxnorton.co.nz/. His workshop was amazing; there were probably about 20 Manx Nortons there, a Vincent , and a McIntosh Suzuki, the bike that used the frame that he developed, and which probably started his reputation.

It's a good idea that works Chris. The later kickstarts available from Andover are actually made like this. I had a lot of trouble with this in my first couple of years of ownership but a new type kickstart and a higher grade of bolt fixed it.

I am a little slow tonight. This is a tmely topic so if you have a pic of the location of the splines to be removed-or one more attempt at defining the solution- I would appreciate this ifo.

Thanks

Tom

Look at the kickstart lever where the bolt goes through it, just widen the gap so that the lever gets tight on the shaft rather than the gap closing and the bolt getting tight while the lever still "flops around" on the shaft.

I hope that this makes sense.

Vince

"I was given this tip by Ken McIntosh, a Manx Norton guru who is something of a legend in New Zealand and I suspect internationally in Manx racing circles. His workshop is not too far from where I live, and I visited it last week to see if I could purchase two Amal screws which I needed for my brake lever. He had them in stock. For a great $6 purchase he spent about 20 minutes talking to me about different bolt and screw threads, which lead into the topic of kickstarts, and him giving me this suggestion, which he maintains should increase the life of the shaft and kickstart by some margin."

Interesting referencing a Manx guru with advise about kick start and kick start shaft as the Manx wasn't supplied with these parts from new.

Anything Else youd like to complain about .

Explanatarilly , IF there were NO splines , just a smooth shaft etc. , TIGHTENING the bolt through the Footcrank

would pull the slot closed , and it'd still be loose . :lol: :roll: Er . . . if the slot is adequate ,

IT TIGHTENS over the WHOLE of the Circumferance , Right Arounds . MAXimum Contact Area .

HOWEVER , with the SPLINES right up to the SLOT , Tightening Pulls these Teeth Immediate to the SLOT Tight , Firm , Bottomed . etc .

The ones round the far side dont get a look in , all the works already been done . etc .

SO ,

If ' We ' remove ( say ) Six Teeth / Spline Grooves Imediate to the SLOT , THIS area can pull in more , slide over in fact .

Therefore the TENSION Around the Rest is Increased , as in ' There Doing There Job ' , rather than being Relaxed , Loose ,
of no use , and things like that .

OR , If you wrap a sheet of tin around a tree , and nail the two ends together , pulling em aint going to tighten it more .
Here , were effectively leaveing the nails out of the end .As it were . Metaphoricly , so to say . Better Wrap .
See its CLEAN , and its one of the few places MORE than a drop or three of Red Loctite will still let you get it loose again .

Reckon you could accomplish the same thing by relieving the ID of the lever? In my case, that would give me a better chance of removing splines in the right area. This is a timely post as my gearbox is apart doing clutch lever modification Dave Comeau describes on his site.

Hi littlefield, any chance you can post a limk?
Regards Mike

Ha, I've done all my kickers with widened slot over 1/8" and removed 3-4 teeth each side and put hi grade through bolt in with back up nut and its only stayed tight seated a few dozen kickeroo's. Mine all end up rocking slightly on splines no matter what, though not enough to damage them so solved that part at least.

Its a bad design from the get go and should of been made on a tapper shaft with provision for a puller to remove. On my big block Hi CR special I plan to put set screws to bind in the gap between spline rows.

I don't have any trouble with mine and the splines are not in the best of shape on the kicker. It may help to open up the clearance hole where the bolt goes in to minimize the chance of the bolt binding there when tightening, use a flat washer under the bolt head with some lube to help with the torquing and for sure use a grade 8 bolt and nut. Don't be afraid to crank it down.

Dave
69S

Its just beyond my skill or kicking ease to get mine to stay solid very long even with air craft grade 8+ and free clearance to nip so tight the socket drive or end wrench jaws at risk. I slice off a bit of bolt head so it traps on back side of the kicker from turning and no washer to crush down to relieve extreme clamp force. I will check others next time at a rally to see what they mean by tight and stable. hobot

I cut my slot too wide to do with a hacksaw blade that's just to get room to get thin wheel dremal grinder in there so no question the gap closing up too soon for full perimeter back spline engagement. I think the metal grade is just not up to it too, even the Ginuine kind.

Brooking 850 said:

Hi littlefield, any chance you can post a limk?
Regards Mike

Click to expand...

http://atlanticgreen.com/norton.htm under Primary/Clutch section.

The clutch lever perch I'm using is taller than stock making the pull difficult. Conan clutch.

littlefield said:

Brooking 850 said:

Hi littlefield, any chance you can post a limk?
Regards Mike

Click to expand...

http://atlanticgreen.com/norton.htm under Primary/Clutch section.

The clutch lever perch I'm using is taller than stock making the pull difficult. Conan clutch.

Click to expand...

How's that stack height?

Unclviny said:

Look at the kickstart lever where the bolt goes through it, just widen the gap so that the lever gets tight on the shaft rather than the gap closing and the bolt getting tight while the lever still "flops around" on the shaft.

I hope that this makes sense.

Vince

Click to expand...

+1

Correct hillbilly clutch stack measure is just sensing how easy yet close a fit the diaphram is to fit, if not about stopping on clutch stack to slip in, add thicker plate, it needs a bit of pressure to fit in slot then substact some in the stack. I'd a year on last cltuch I put in with ATF in the case and no once instance of clutch drag so far after a month sitting this last time, today it got used delighfully. Fortunately fairly easy starter so slightly loose kicker ain't self destructing very fast.

Seems my shaft has a relief around the area where the bolt goes through, so there's no need to cut off splines? Notice I don't even have a nut on it, but I keep an eye on the thing and when/if it gets loose, I just tighten.



Of course this is a real old one, so maybe it works?

Dave
69S

Right, its a FOOT CRANK . the term ' Kick Starter' is a misnomer .

Kicking is used to straighten bent raceing bikes , :shock: or for pansy little Jappanese cylinders .

The PROBLEM with the Norton ' Arangement ' is that the Foot Lever ( for the boot ) is offset a few yards to the right .
As It Were . Offsett , overhang . fulcrum .Bother . KICKING ' Shock Loads ' the apperatus . Cunning & Finesse are Required .

The clutch is freed , the Cylinders positioned , Foot Crank Engaged at top of stroke .Deep Breath and Giddy Hights .
Foot on knee bent , you throw yourself upward with the left foot etc ( NOT on the Sidestand ) So As That you get the
Full Weight on the Right Leg , as it comes straight , poised on the lever at the top of the stroke .Very emmbarising .

Tecnically the lever will start moveing accelerateing full weight over compression , and with the throttle possitioned correctly
will be running. NO force is applied to the foot crank ( thats used to propel you skyward )You let youre weight (when youre up
there ) do all the work . NO Shock Load ( through the spline ) . The tecnique is in Balance , control positions , and the Art
of the six foot leap skyward without disrupting the former . Hence ' FOOT CRANK ' . Thankyou .

Idealy the foot lever would be over / inline with the mount ( spline ) so there was no offset to the load applied .
The I.o.M. Commandos with their High Commpression had ' rather long ' foot cranks , for better mechanical advantage .

Kickstart Crank.



Dave
69S

It still is labeled with a kickstart even though my Combat can be hand cranked its still don't always start just feeling it through compression on cold oil start days or nights. I consider the starting lever one of a Commandos numerous consumables.