thinking out loud

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britbike220

britbike220

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Aug 6, 2005
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%^&*$ #($*%^& bike %&$*#@!, ok, that felt good. I had a broken gas tank strap so I took off the tank and made a new strap, easy enough. Change the blasted stock air filter, lots of problems and swearing, but finished it in about 3 hours. Since i had the tank off I checked valve clearances, left inlet a little tight so I adjusted to .006 and the exhaust were at .008. not problem. Put everything back together and started for test ride. Seemed to start ok and idle fine. Let warm up for a couple minutes and off I go. about a 1/2 mile up the road it starts spitting and sputtering and becomes non responsive to throttle, backfires and is dead. Coast into parking lot, try to start and it is making a weird sound when kicking over almost a wooshing air ping. I thought it sounded like a valve issue. So I know it ain't going anywhere, but for the heck of I try and kick it, but get nothing but that weird sound. Open the throttle wide and it starts for a second then dies and that was the end. Walked home in the 90 degree heats cursing myself for living, got the truck, loaded the bike. Took everything apart again and check the carb and valves everything seems in order. The only thing I can think of is the ignition has gone south. So a bad day, it was getting too dark to really see what i was looking at so I'll have to start trying to figure out where the thing went bad. I couldn't find my GD compression gauge because I put it in a place where I wouldn't loose it. Maybe tomorrow will be a better day. Seems weird it started easy, and rode great for a half mile and then it just went bad.
 
britbike220 said:
%^&*$ #($*%^& bike %&$*#@!, ok, that felt good. I had a broken gas tank strap so I took off the tank and made a new strap, easy enough. Change the blasted stock air filter, lots of problems and swearing, but finished it in about 3 hours. Since i had the tank off I checked valve clearances, left inlet a little tight so I adjusted to .006 and the exhaust were at .008. not problem. Put everything back together and started for test ride. Seemed to start ok and idle fine. Let warm up for a couple minutes and off I go. about a 1/2 mile up the road it starts spitting and sputtering and becomes non responsive to throttle, backfires and is dead. Coast into parking lot, try to start and it is making a weird sound when kicking over almost a wooshing air ping. I thought it sounded like a valve issue. So I know it ain't going anywhere, but for the heck of I try and kick it, but get nothing but that weird sound. Open the throttle wide and it starts for a second then dies and that was the end. Walked home in the 90 degree heats cursing myself for living, got the truck, loaded the bike. Took everything apart again and check the carb and valves everything seems in order. The only thing I can think of is the ignition has gone south. So a bad day, it was getting too dark to really see what i was looking at so I'll have to start trying to figure out where the thing went bad. I couldn't find my GD compression gauge because I put it in a place where I wouldn't loose it. Maybe tomorrow will be a better day. Seems weird it started easy, and rode great for a half mile and then it just went bad.
Click to expand...

I'd recheck the valve clearance. May have come loose or tolerances changed when warm.
 
Wish I had a nickel for every time that happened to me and other Norton owners! I usually discover it's electrical connection somewhere. Last time I forgot to put something under the points cover to cut vibration breaking wires on the electronic ignition and a coil shorted on the points plate. :idea:
 
Easiest thing to check 1st is ignition by spark at the plugs. Assuming its got a Boyer or similar, check the battery for 12V or more. Lay the plugs on the head and switch on and kick it over see if you get a decent spark. Hopefully its just some minor glitch like a HT lead loose on a coil.

If that's OK, next go for the compression test. Should have 130 upward to 150PSI for a healthy top end. If that's OK its time to get the spanners out and check the carbs first - no loose float bowls or manifolds. Then move onto the valves and then maybe pull the head.

Mick
 
Ok you've copied one of my old posts to Brit Iron and NOC but I'll play alone.
So applying BI logic to 2010 Commando in particular, has mechanical
and fuel symptoms then it follows one must first look to the electrics.

After following the good check list above, do the exposed grounded
plug test with Boyer ignition on and go around All wiring, tail brake
light including, flicking tugging jerking and listen or watch for
a spark. Then narrow down the lead and area.
Sometimes a really hard smacking locks the loose copper frays
together pretty done good for satisfying relief rides, till needs
more and more good smackings to stay on good behavior
or you in mood to eliminate it or a show stopper like now.

Always worth a look after dark running not for yours right now.

hobot a decade now, one more time around to see if I deserve
to keep Commandos or admit its over my head or karma.
 
Hob...Could be poor fork damping....mayby a Lans....? :lol: simple answer you have got some crap in the carb...Tank off! shake it all about.?
britbike220 said:
%^&*$ #($*%^& bike %&$*#@!, ok, that felt good. I had a broken gas tank strap so I took off the tank and made a new strap, easy enough. Change the blasted stock air filter, lots of problems and swearing, but finished it in about 3 hours. Since i had the tank off I checked valve clearances, left inlet a little tight so I adjusted to .006 and the exhaust were at .008. not problem. Put everything back together and started for test ride. Seemed to start ok and idle fine. Let warm up for a couple minutes and off I go. about a 1/2 mile up the road it starts spitting and sputtering and becomes non responsive to throttle, backfires and is dead. Coast into parking lot, try to start and it is making a weird sound when kicking over almost a wooshing air ping. I thought it sounded like a valve issue. So I know it ain't going anywhere, but for the heck of I try and kick it, but get nothing but that weird sound. Open the throttle wide and it starts for a second then dies and that was the end. Walked home in the 90 degree heats cursing myself for living, got the truck, loaded the bike. Took everything apart again and check the carb and valves everything seems in order. The only thing I can think of is the ignition has gone south. So a bad day, it was getting too dark to really see what i was looking at so I'll have to start trying to figure out where the thing went bad. I couldn't find my GD compression gauge because I put it in a place where I wouldn't loose it. Maybe tomorrow will be a better day. Seems weird it started easy, and rode great for a half mile and then it just went bad.
Click to expand...
 
hopefully I'll be able to get to it after work today. I tried to cover what I touched before the incident. single Carb, valves, tank off so possible wiring. I do have spark in both cylinders and from past experience the sound and behavior sounds like valves being to tight, but I double checked them. Another time I had similar issues a sleeved carb slide came loose as in the sleeve kept slipping and caused the bike to spit and pop then die until the sleeve worked it's way back into position, that one was a real puzzler. I did check the sleeve and all appeared well at first glance. I will dismantle the carb and especially make sure the passages are clean. I do have a new pazon I have been wanting to install, what better time than now. I am not a boyer fan so I want to replace it. At any rate I'll go over everything suggested and report back as I go through the list. I do appreciate all of the replies, it's always good to have support when one is "mechanically declined" such as myself.

Tim
 
Best to step away from it for a while. Have a beer take a walk read a book. Sit down w/ pencil and paper and organize the possibilities. For me anyway, things become clearer after a timeout.
 
britbike220 said:
I do have a new pazon I have been wanting to install, what better time than now. I am not a boyer fan so I want to replace it. At any rate I'll go over everything suggested and report back as I go through the list. I do appreciate all of the replies, it's always good to have support when one is "mechanically declined" such as myself.

Tim
Click to expand...

I would not replace the Boyer quite yet unless it proves to not work. Once the bike is running again then you can tackle the Pazon. You want to introduce as few variables in troubleshooting as you can. For example if you replace the ignition and it wasn't the Boyer and you disturb something else, you'll end up blaming the Pazon and it will make it ten times harder to troubleshoot the actual fault. Prove that the Boyer doesn't work before replacing it.

Please note that advice is the right way to do it. I tend to do it the wrong way. :mrgreen:
 
Dave, thought about that after I posted and agree about not complicating issues. I am anxious to take a look today.
 
"90% of carburation problems are electrical"

"90% of electrical problems are in the carbs"

...or something like that.
 
If the bike still has good compression and it still sounds like the valves are not closing properly I would suspect the timing is whacked out. The stator on the Boyer come loose maybe?
Would be nice if it was something simple!
 
I agree, Connections, connections, connections. Back in auto shop the teacher drilled it into our heads to start with the easy things first, Then move onto the difficult and expensive things. Also the walk away thing and beer really help, You'll get it.
 
Do you have a stock kill switch? (You know those thing are really a problem, see recent Swooshdave thread for details...) :twisted:
 
rvich said:
Do you have a stock kill switch? (You know those thing are really a problem, see recent Swooshdave thread for details...)
Click to expand...

He said he has spark.
 
OK, the above post has been properly edited to reflect the fact that I was just causing trouble...now back to our regular programming.
 
Hmmmm, did a compression test and see only 62 pound in each cylinder..... damn not good. As a matter of fact very bad only about 8-10K on a rebuild?????? Did the comp test three times, same read...........Something doesn't add up, so I take off carb and go to take off RGM single manifold and there's only one screw inside to take out. Pull off mainfold and notice there are two holes for two screws to mount to the head.............Guess what one of the mounting screws came out and lodged in the left intake and I can't seem to get it out. After trying tool after tool I finally find a pair of needle nose pliers to get the screw out of the intake. Do comp test and have 120 in each cylinder. I am still bummed because I wouldn't have thought the compression would be that low after 8-10K. So I check clearances and put things back together and viola the bike starts and runs!!!!!!! I haven't re tuned the carb yet and I'll probably test after a few deep breaths. Moral of the story check all fasteners once in awhile to make sure things are tight. Also is 120 pounds nearing another rebuild. I don't pound on the bike at all and I'm just thinking it isn't right to only have 8-10k on a bike and be 30 pounds shy of a healthy bike.

Oh did I mention I love my compression gauge?
 
. Also is 120 pounds nearing another rebuild. I don't pound on the bike at all and I'm just thinking it isn't right to only have 8-10k on a bike and be 30 pounds shy of a healthy bike.

Oh did I mention I love my compression gauge?[/quote]

120PSI ?Don't worry about it. Bike runs OK? If it doesn't blow smoke its probably going to be completely rideable for many miles to come.

Mick
 
Remember that it's not as important to measure out a high compression ready, especially if you can't validate the accuracy of the gauge. Have you had it calibrated? Rather it's more important that both cylinders are within 10% of each other.

Ride it!

Also, even tho' you can get complacent with the lack of vibes while riding a Norton, don't forget that the rest of the bike is shaking like crazy. Recheck ALL fasteners on a regular schedule.
 
The manifold mounts with bolts that are on the inside of the intake? Yikes! Tell me again what kind of manifold that is...I want to make sure I don't buy one!
 
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