The new motor -oil test final stage (2018)

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It lives.
I put the first 75 miles on it this morning.
Here is the first 20 minutes. The fuel injection unit is on auto-tune to get the fueling tables adjusted for the new cam. It runs a bit rough for the first mile or two and by then it's close enough to run well.



It's back in the shop for the first oil change, head retorque and valve adjustment.
And to replace one seriously buckled steel clutch plate.
Looks like it's going to be ready to hit the highway next week for the LOP rally.
 
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sounds good minus the few hiccups in that first mile or two. What's the injection circuit consist of? ECU, injector, O2 sensor, and what else? I know cars have crank sensors and mass air flow sensors. Do you need all that, or is something as simple as a throttle position sensor enough to make it work? (just curious)
 
ECU, two injectors, one twin tower ignition coil

map sensor, [it runs speed density alpha-n blend -so no MAF sensor]

two crank sensors [one for starting and one for running]

one cam sensor, one O2 sensor, one throttle position sensor, one cylinder head temp sensor, one intake air temp sensor, one fuel temp sensor and one knock sensor

One high pressure electric pump inside the backbone tube and a vacuum operated pump to circulate fuel between the backbone tube and the fuel tank.
 
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Thanks Jim, I was curious as to how much sensor input was involved in your system,.... you know, I'm crazy too.
 
Congratulations, Jim. That's a really impressive package. Just curious about the auto tune. Do you need a wideband lambda sensor for that to work, or just a narrowband?

Ken
 
Congratulations, Jim. That's a really impressive package. Just curious about the auto tune. Do you need a wideband lambda sensor for that to work, or just a narrowband?

Ken

Definitely a wideband
A narrowband is only accurate at 14.7-1. Too lean for a Norton.

Ken, are you going to make the LOP rally this year.
 
So what break in method and oil did you use for this motor?
Regards Mike

Poured it full of Bel Ray EXP 20W50 and rode it as you see in the video. I changed the oil and filters and flushed the oil system after 75 miles.

My order of more Bel Ray did not show up so I have made the switch to 25W60 Klotz with FR3 additive for the trip next week.

Round trip to the rally is around 2000 miles so I will need to do a head retorque and valve adjust somewhere after the first day.
 

My assumption, but the meaty SBR crankcase would have allowed even bigger bearings, wouldn't it. Do you know if these crankcases are still offered, and if so, by whom?

comnoz said:
Neat thing about using small block Chevy sized journals is factory coated rod shells in any taper desired.

Excuse my curiosity, but I find the c/shaft design intriguing. Did you chose the "small-journal" size of 2" (pre-'68 302 engines) or the later 2.1" journal size for the later 302 engines used in the Z/28 Camaro?

Adverse feature of increasing the journals is that some mass has to be added at the flywheel, thus c/shaft gets quite a bit heavier, but has a higher moment of inertia also. Probably not so bad for a touring bike. Did you weigh it?

Are conrods taylor made by Carilllo?

Hope the engine fulfills all your expectations!

Regards,
Knut
 
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My assumption, but the meaty SBR crankcase would have allowed even bigger bearings, wouldn't it. Do you know if these crankcases are still offered, and if so, by whom?



Excuse my curiosity, but I find the c/shaft design intriguing. Did you chose the "small-journal" size of 2" (pre-'68 302 engines) or the later 2.1" journal size for the later 302 engines used in the Z/28 Camaro?

Adverse feature of increasing the journals is that some mass has to be added at the flywheel, thus c/shaft gets quite a bit heavier, but has a higher moment of inertia also. Probably not so bad for a touring bike. Did you weigh it?

Are conrods taylor made by Carilllo?

Hope the engine fulfills all your expectations!

Regards,
Knut

The journal size is 2 inch.
The rods are Carrillo.
The problem with going larger on the main bearing is it gets too close to the hole for the idler pinion shaft. I tried a larger OD bearing once in a racebike motor and eventually got a crack between the two holes.
The crank is much heavier than stock. More than 10 lbs. There is no perceptible loss of response and the motor is extremely smooth.
In my experience, lightweight cranks are of little benefit at the RPM levels of a Norton. Particularly with a streetbike where a lightweight crank just increases the vibration and stress on the cases and anything else bolted to the motor.
 
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SBR? Related to this? I saw this clean up at Donnington Park UK last year. It was running methonol I know but it still had to be ridden well to win.
 

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Definitely a wideband
A narrowband is only accurate at 14.7-1. Too lean for a Norton.

Ken, are you going to make the LOP rally this year.

I wish:(. I'm too busy trying to get the race bike ready for El Mirage on the 21st. Maybe next year.

Ken
 
I wish:(. I'm too busy trying to get the race bike ready for El Mirage on the 21st. Maybe next year.

Ken

Well I will make sure and have an extra cold one for you.....
Good luck at El Mirage.
 
The crank is much heavier than stock. More than 10 lbs. There is no perceptible loss of response and the motor is extremely smooth. In my experience, lightweight cranks are of little benefit at the RPM levels of a Norton. Particularly with a streetbike where a lightweight crank just increases the vibration and stress on the cases and anything else bolted to the motor.

Thanks Jim.

Considered independently, a crankshaft has at least 4 different dynamic modes which needs to be considered: Bending dynamics in two axes and torsional dynamics are the most important ones. First order bending mode eigenfrequency is governed by sqrt(c/m) were m is the crankshaft mass and c the spring stiffness of the shaft. Now, you have increased both.
c = 48*E*I/L^3.
I ~ pi*d^4/64, assuming I is governed by journal size only (a very coarse simplification).
Since your d increased from 1.75" to 2", d_new = 1.143*d_old
I_new = 1.493 * I_old
Since E and L are as before,
c_new = 1.493 * c_old.

m_new ~ 1.417 * m_old (an approximation, comparing with a standard crankshaft)

Therefore,

f_new = sqrt(1.493 / 1.417) * f_old = 1.026 * f_old

However, if c_old was to be kept and the mass reduced from 24 lb to say 19.2 lb (-20%), then

f_light = sqrt(1/0.8) * f_old = 1.118 * f_old

Which supports your statement that bending mode vibrations will increase, the increase is not dramatic however. I have assumed you referred to vibrations in the vertical plane.

The crankshaft noes not vibrate on its own. Supported by the crankcase, we may model the system as a two-mass vibrating system (keeping the isolastic supports out of the discussion for now). Combustion exerts harmonic forces onto the crankshaft, which is thought as being supported on very stiff springs at another mass located in the center of the bearing. This mass condenses weight of the crancase between the bearing and the nearest engine support. The latter mass is then supported by weaker springs towards the reference "ground", i.e., the the nearest engine support, considered to be non-moving.

We are now looking at the excitation of the crankshaft itself, i.e., the first mass of the two.

The eigenfrequency or the nearest higher order frequencies (n=2,3,4) is a problem only if it's getting close to the combustion force excitation frequency. The lowest exitation fequency f_exc is at 900 rpm = 15 Hz.

Assuming the crankshaft is homogeneous, which it isn't of course, the bending mode eigenfrequency calculates to f_old ~ 400 Hz. The real frequency may be half that figure.

Stress amplitude in the crancase is a function of the frequency ratio f/fc, where fc is the lowest eigenfrequency of the crankcase.
We have a case of base excitation, where the crankshaft is the "base".
http://www.brown.edu/Departments/En...Notes/vibrations_forced/vibrations_forced.htm

A calculation estimate showed that fc = 1500 Hz approx.

Since f_old / fc = ~0.25, the amplitude diagram shows that amplitude amplification is about 1.0 (see left part of the diagram), hence there will be no larger displacement and therefore np additinal stress in the crankcase as crankshaftmass is varied. Inclusion of c/shaft bolt weakness and structural damping will not alter these considerations.

In plain english, we find that for the bending spring associated with the first mass, the excitation force fails to excert the crankshaft within the domain of allowable revs. The harmonic force passes through the bending action spring (there might be a phase change) onto the second mass which is supported by a stiffer spring governed by the tensile stiffness of aluminum.

We find that the crancase will not be affected by resonance. If fc=1500 Hz is accurate, the highest ratio f_exc/fc = ~ 0.1 at maximum rpm which means the crankcase will act as a solid lump. This does not mean that certain less stiff parts like cooling fins can't enter into a resonant mode.

Thus we find that neither excitatin by harmonic combustion forces nor dynamic coupling will induce crancase vibrations.

In reality the estimated frequencies will be lower due to structural damping within the material itself, and (for the crankshaft additionally) due to friction in case a bolt-up crankshaft is examined. The analysis above neglects the effect of the clamped barrel and cylinder head.

In a second post I will look at the static balance forces of the crankshaft and the crankshaft weight dependency.

-Knut
 
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For a rubber mounted engine, the movements of the engine will be dictated by the frequency of firing pulses, and not by bending mode dynamics.

It's true the bending dynamics does not affect the vibration at the RPM levels of a Norton.

But the mass of the crank definitely affects the vibration on all planes since the resulting motion from vibration force is a % comparison of unbalanced mass to balanced mass.

This bars are dead smooth by 2000 rpm, even with the 91 mm stroke and steel rods.
 
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Jim,
You used Bel-Ray EXP 20W50 for break-in and you were going to use the same after break-in or a different Bel-Ray?

Ed
 
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