The Continuing Adventures Of The Buckeye Rider

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Hello fellow riders. It's been a while since my last post( March 2005). I used to be a regular on INOLIST until it got messed up to the point I couldn't use it so now I'm back here on the urging of my friend "milfordite".
So here is my latest tale of woe.


THE FALL AND RISE OF ‘Pa’ MY TRUSTY NORTON
Late in June of 2014 I was riding one of my favorite rural routes through Northern Kentucky taking the back way to a nice little restaurant in Cynthiana. ‘Pa’ slowed down once on his own then sped back up I tried to fathom what that could be and continued motoring on. Then through a fast tight sweeper my MKIII refused to respond to the throttle making it a little difficult to hold my line then came back to life. A few more miles of twisting roads over ridges and through the valleys and all seemed well. A mile after pulling onto the highway towards Falmouth ‘Pa’ Seemed to choke up so I pulled in the clutch to rev it up and clear his throat and the most horrible noise came from under the tank and the motor stalled . I was fortunate that at this very moment there was a safe place to pull off the side of the road and get out of danger. It didn’t hurt that there was a large shade tree to rest under and that we were on the top of a high ridge with cell service.

A quick visual check of the engine and my heart went into my throat. This was the closest I had ever been to crying over a broken machine. My little one way check valve in my oil supply line had become a no-way check valve starving the engine of lubricant and locking it up.

Norton owners have been dealing with wet sumping for a long time with lots of different theories for cause and correction. Horror stories have been told and repeated about check valves and I am here today to repeat what was told to me many times by people smarter than I. “If you have one of those little check valves that are silver on one end and black on the other with a clear window in the middle run, don’t walk to your Norton and remove that valve before starting the engine even one more time!”

Here is how big a disbeliever I was; Two years after installing my first valve I discovered it had “come apart” while doing a routine pre-flight inspection. I got another one under warranty from my supplier and replaced it. Two years after that episode I was stranded on the side of the road in rural Ky. on a broken motorcycle with a separated check valve just like the first one.

I had ‘Pa’ hauled back to town and stored in my son’s garage downtown. My dilemma now was that I had torn down the dilapidated shed I called a garage and was in the process of building a proper workshop for my motorcycles. (No cars allowed!) I had no place to work on the Norton and he sat forlornly in limbo for six months until the new garage was finished and all my tools and equipment could be moved in.

The initial diagnosis after disassembly; drive side connecting rod broken, crankshaft journals looking frightful, pistons and cylinder scored and scorched, and a contusion to the case behind the drive side journal where the rod tried to escape.
The crankshaft only needed -.020 removed to be serviceable again. A wonderful friend (milfordite)donated a good used rod along with a lot of priceless technical information and moral support. The cylinders went +.040 having been +20 earlier in life. I went through the head and after a regrind on the valves and new stem seals all was good there. While I was there I replaced the cam chain and the primary chain and went through chain tensioners in the MKIII drive side. The crank was rebalanced along with the rods and pistons.

Upon recommendation from people who know way more than me I changed the front sprocket to 21 teeth op from 20 and installed a new camshaft with a “street/touring grind”. I also modified the sprockets and installed the 520 “O” ring chain. The rear Isolastics was completely worn out so new front and rears were installed. I also had my plain clutch plates machined flat by a precision grinding company after noticing unusual wear patterns.
Having been a mechanic for over forty years I did all of the work except the machining myself with a little help from friends and family.

My financial adviser (wife) told me the day I brought the broken Norton home that I was to fix it, regardless of the cost. She said the Norton was too important to me to just let it sit. This was after spending a small fortune on my new workshop that was also her Idea.

Three months and two-thousand dollars later I have a machine that is by far better than I had before. The different sprocket and cam made a world of difference, along with the new Isolastics the bike cruises with less effort and less vibration at 70 mph then I ever would have thought possible. The 70 to 90 mph time is reduced to just a quick twist of the throttle. The overall power band and response to the throttle is unbelievable and yet it is still the same docile machine in town and traffic.

After eight hundred miles and three oil changes, four head re-torques, and four valve adjustments ‘Pa’ starts first kick, idles smooth, runs like a scared cat and holds the place of honor in the new shop. He really seems to like the flogging he is getting as we break in the engine and relearn our blend of new and old personalities.

Ride On (Nortons of course)
Dave

©The Buckeye Rider
Cincinnati, Ohio
5/21/2015
 
I have not been on that list after yahoo did there UP GRADE several years ago. IMHO it is almost unnavigable and a pi$$ poor excuse for a forum format.
sorry to here of your trouble's but yours is just one more example of this POS not being not fit for purpose. as you have a MK3 it has a valve in the timing cover and all you need to do is increase the clearance in the bore for the piston to stop it from sticking.


The Buckeye Rider said:
I used to be a regular on INOLIST until it got messed up to the point I couldn't use it so now I'm back here on the urging of my friend "milfordite".
So here is my latest tale of woe.


©The Buckeye Rider
Cincinnati, Ohio
5/21/2015
 
peter12 said:
New check valve fitted?☺
I won't be fooled the THIRD time. The check valve has been eliminated.
If 'Pa' ,my trusty Norton, sits for more then a few days then I drain the sump and refill the holding tank using a dedicated drain jar.
 
bill said:
as you have a MK3 it has a valve in the timing cover and all you need to do is increase the clearance in the bore for the piston to stop it from sticking.


In the beginning, 1975, on the urging of the selling dealer I removed the factory anti-drain valve because of fear of sticking.
Many years later I installed a new one and made sure the clearance was sufficient. This didn't help at all hence the install of the after market valve.
The exterior ant-sump valve does indeed hold the oil in the tank even when it breaks apart.

My thoughts on the internal valve are thus;
1) the rubber seal between the inner and outer cases that the little piston rest against is too hard and gets slightly distorted when assembled to make a good seal.
2) the little wimpy spring that hold the piston against the seal is too weak to hold back the weight of all the oil in the tank trying to get through.
 
Fast Eddie said:
What cam did you fit?

On the urging of friends who are way smarter then me (milfordite) I sent my cam to Web Cam (webcamshaft.com) and had them re-do it to their "street/touring grind:

Norton 850 Twin

valve lift duration duration @ .050
.388/.388 290°/290° 250°/250°
Bolt in performance cam for street / touring.

At 60k miles my cam still looked pretty good, good enough to have been reused if needed. the re-done cam of course looked brand new.
The cost was close to that of a new camshaft but at this point of the rebuild that wasn't an I$$ue.
 
When I bought my MKIII the check valve had been removed, for what reason I don't know as there's no way that valve could resist full oil pressure. My cold oil pressure is over 100 PSI. That valve is about 3/8" or so so that would be a 44 lb push alone. Since the relief is past the valve the pressure would build to whatever it took to move the valve, several hundred PSI or more if necessary.

I installed a new one and it had a habit of sticking open so it still wet sumped. I found that the bore bottom is slightly tapered and would jam the valve if pushed hard enough which cold oil will do. The simple fix was a very small washer, a number 8, I think, under the spring. The washer is thin enough that the oil passage opens fully and the valve bottoms on the washer rather than sticking in the bore. No more wet sump, except, of course over the winter when it seeps past the oil pump shaft.

I thought of having the oil pump mod for an o ring but in my mind an o ring is not the ideal seal for a rotating part plus it's no big deal to move the oil back to the tank once and a while. Before I fixed the valve it looked like I was fogging mosquitoes.
 
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