The Commando Weave

DO NOT BE LULLED by the false security of wonderful handing new tires, even though that is the single best thing to do for Cdo handling, THE Hinge still lurks! It will just onset at a higher speeds and at a higher frequency with more force is all. Wisely pick your time and place and creep up on the new tire threshold of THE Hinge. As we've read the worse way to encounter THE Hinge is when letting off for safety. This is where the front/rear air balance can detectably extend the new tire benefit and control warding off THE Hinge handling. Every new tire combo and rider has its own best balance and does change some as tires wear or surface conditions change. For me its always between 2-3 lb lower in front and seems to hold same 2-3 lb difference across a range of inflation air pressures.

I generally don't class Commandos as enough power to break loose over 75 but found out they can scrub rear outward nicely w/o THE Hinge if creeping up on leans and power and speed. I'm about done working up nerve on Trixie after finding her new tire traction limits, I'll not cross no more, just nudge it in the right conditions. One thing about my antics is leaves no mystery surprises about me and bikes limits to avoid.

The only high speed weave I ever encountered on a Commando at speed was coming off the banking at Daytona where the bike seemed to find a happy oscillation. The bike had 18" alloy rims and low profile and wider AVON Super Venom race tires. The bike had a steering damper and the isolastics were nipped up closer than for street use. Never had it happen to me on any other Commandos I have ridden at speed or in anger..

The high speed weave felt like the front wheel was going in one direction and the rear was still going in the other direction. I estimate it was at a frequency of about 1 hertz.

Ok then Daytona does not offer enough tight radius turns to test a Commando much. The beginning of THE Full Hinge is a slow motion sense of each end starting to argue on which to go. I call this tire conflict. Civilly at first, but can quickly become a push-shove-punching match no one can control. On THE Gravel I live in that slow mo beginning onset state and pretty easy to ride there - if power and lean and surface and wind condition stay essentially the same. If one has power enough on tap, everyone does on THE Grit, to over power tire to get rear spinning - but only up to best acceleration thrust, no slip out - then can out run THE Hinge by lifting front out of effective traction to fight with the rear. Wonderful sensation if the end of the turn opens up then can just stay on it as straightening up, But if there is a another turn another way at end of rushing through THE HInge and you have to let off, bad juju as reported. Again this is same thing with all cycles just elites take more loads before going crazy and the better they handle the harder to recover once it hits its a lot more sudden harsh onset. There is a way to sort of out run their HInge too but its not anything believable here and horrified instructors whose best apex X marks I questioned at first then ignored. Nothing I've ever ridden compares to Ms Peel in breath taking turns. The is literal not figurative.

I think best chassis gives in to the tire conflicts by twisting and storing the energy as long as pilot likes then release as pilot like but only back to Neutral center w/o any rebound beyond that. No full cycles of any resonance, half cycles only you can let go gradually or all at once. I think ends should be stiff and center soft. I think rear should carry all the cornering forces, front just to help rear lean or get out the way., by dolly wheeling road following or lift off. A totally Neutral bike is hands off w/o need of body english once a lean is set

Btw I've practiced every way to try to influence turn behavior, pressure on/off pegs, bars, hanging way off, whole body slams etc. Try this hobot lesion, get up 60+ hands off and pouce your weigh on a peg, while watching what forks do. Repeat side to side just to make sure of your observations, hehehe, then tell me about counter steering as only way to change hi speed direction. I found out you can use these various ways to help settle a bike down somewhat but don't do much to matter for going sharper faster. I use knee hang outs only to prevent need to counter steer more and slide out when riding the crest of loose berm I got pushed on too by wild flyer oncomming, or I got a bit too hot into extra loose spot, whoohoo, only body english can tip in favor back on grade instead of slip into the drink. This can onset some Hinge too so can't lean very far off at first. When I let hair out I get as close to bike CoG height wise and rear ward, fixed and locked tight in seat as direction changes too fast to adapt body too and upsets the bike to boot.

hobot said:

Ok then Daytona does not offer enough tight radius turns to test a Commando much.

Click to expand...

OK, then what you are discussing is not a high or medium speed weave. What I am describing cannot be controlled or noticeably damped out by the rider and in my case, was at high speeds.

hobot said:

The beginning of THE Full Hinge is a slow motion sense of each end starting to argue on which to go. I call this tire conflict.

Click to expand...

Good choice of terms "tire or wheel conflict" but it is more the whole bike system characteristics. I seem to recall mentioning this high speed weave on another forum and a Daytona veteran alluded to tire sizes, profile and stiffness (for a given bike) being a significant factor. Furthermore, in my case I suspect the transition off the Daytona high bank was putting the bike/wheels/tires at a weird attitude where I no longer needed the banking yet the bike was traversing an incline at high speeds.

Yes Dances John, all bikes that are in counter steering turning mode-phase II [front pulling to outside and downward on lean angle with rear pushing to inside and lifting up lean] experience tire-vector conflicts that put a varying and intermittent twist in chassis. In rigid bikes that don't twist much the tires can chirp right out while flexy bikes flop so much it lifts one tire out of traction so other tire grabs bike one way till its fully road following grip then the other tire takes over at a more extreme conflict angle to repeat cycle till SPLATT!

Be aware that you have not yet taken a Commando or other bikes into a far enough lean at fast enough speed to have tire conflict vectors action build up much is all. This is both a compliment to your skill sense care not to over force the Cdo, but also a slap at you not fully pressing one to know what can onset if say a bike to avoid right in path of stable easy line around or lean across patch of grit-grease unseen. Safest sane way to study up on this is letting air out of tires till its very plain to feel. Fate did that to me by slow leaks at one end of the other unknown till suddenly nutzo on leans. At first felt just like gusts or lumpy road effects combined, similar to the slow weave you describe off the steep banks. More banking means less leaning/fork turning so less conflicts to handle, besides pressing tires more into track than skewed on surface. Another way is to zig zag in lane more and more till chassis twists releases to begin the Hop-A-Long-Cassidy bucking bronco ride. Combined low air and zig zags can give a novice more recovery skill in a few minutes than decades racing merely up to the edges of nutzo states.





All but one bike I've tried or viewed will either Hinge/Slap out of control off surface or one tire lets go or over grips to low or hi side trying to stay in phase II tire vector conflict. Some bikes are hard to hold down, tending to fling up with forks slapping, while others tend to lean over easy but then fight the lift back up with Hinge/Slat. Either tire can cause a low side slip out or hi side over grip. Again low air one tire at a time and zig zags can train one to this in reasonable safety.

From all you have written on this thread, you are describing something other than a high speed weave. You are confusing in-turn stability with high speed weave.


As for experimenting with lower and lower tire air pressures, I have learned from the few unitended instances and do not need to continue testing like I was trying to win a Darwin award. To seriously recommend that someone do that is in my opinion irresponsible. Whether someone takes your lower pressure tire pressure test recommendation seriously seems a but moot because........

hobot said:

All but one bike I've tried or viewed will either Hinge/Slap out of control off surface or one tire lets go or over grips to low or hi side trying to stay in phase II tire vector conflict.

Click to expand...

These phenomena you have experienced with all but one bike; perhaps this is due to a nervous twitch or lagging response from the operator? Seriously, perhaps a race school to learn the fundamentals such as "smooth is fast". Lean angle is some silly school boy bragging bit, you need to learn that smooth is fast. In this case, it seems like the operator is the common denominator :wink:

Perhaps you should consult with Keith Code.

Oh well Dances I've no top end weave at all on any bike ridden to top out so of course only weave I'm ever concerned with is furiously leaning. You only come back with snide remarks and nil description of upset handling limits so no useful feed back. Either concealing your experience to learn from or have some surprises yet to learn. Don't know why you are recoiling form my sane safety advice when it age old occurrence to rider with slow or fast leaks to blow outs. But your attitude a prime example of my side line hobby wiping sneers off those that don't know what they are missing out on till a turn or two with me on Ms Peel. I our ran a heated tract instructor on new to me sport bike posture with 3 day old broke L wrist and ribs from a Gravel pitch over on nose going 30-ish and slightly covering brake in down hill coast watching for a driveway, let him take off up to 60's to commit to his far off apex mark then nailed 3 straights in a row to snick 3rd on pop up and run to red line before I sat up to look back to see where he was to see him just coming out of max apex. Take this as ME ME ME crap all ya like, annoys me no end. but I'm dead serious no BS on what you and rest of the world is missing out on w/o the athletics or silks of flying new breeds up sideways to settle out to land right out of there, rather faster harsher than race schools can handle, even on them too rigid balloon tire wanta be's. I find my safety going 'slow' in the opens to let packs catch up then leaving behind again in the tighter spot to repeat and repeat longer than a few minutes on luxury tracks. Other cycles scare the crap out of me and work my ass off for such little gains in speed but exponential increase in risks. Not on my 'imaginary' Ms Peel so refreshing Neutral I've never found an end to her wonders. How many reports you come across that need tank baffles and ground effect spoilers on the sides to get even funner. One in your face obvious hobot bragging right,
I'm sure having way more fun than you can even imagine.

hobot said:

those that don't know what they are missing out on...

Click to expand...

Like gravel rash, broken bones and maybe even death....hmmm....pass.

hobot said:

till a turn or two with me on Ms Peel. I our ran a heated tract instructor on new to me sport bike posture with 3 day old broke L wrist and ribs from a Gravel pitch over on nose going 30-ish and slightly covering brake in down hill coast watching for a driveway, let him take off up to 60's to commit to his far off apex mark then nailed 3 straights in a row to snick 3rd on pop up and run to red line before I sat up to look back to see where he was to see him just coming out of max apex. Take this as ME ME ME crap all ya like, annoys me no end. but I'm dead serious no BS on what you and rest of the world is missing out on w/o the athletics or silks of flying new breeds up sideways to settle out to land right out of there, rather faster harsher than race schools can handle, even on them too rigid balloon tire wanta be's. I find my safety going 'slow' in the opens to let packs catch up then leaving behind again in the tighter spot to repeat and repeat longer than a few minutes on luxury tracks. Other cycles scare the crap out of me and work my ass off for such little gains in speed but exponential increase in risks. Not on my 'imaginary' Ms Peel so refreshing Neutral I've never found an end to her wonders. How many reports you come across that need tank baffles and ground effect spoilers on the sides to get even funner. One in your face obvious hobot bragging right, I'm sure having way more fun than you can even imagine.

Click to expand...

I will be the last one to stand in the way of anyone having fun.

I am serious about the track time (school or whatever) for you to take it to the true limits. For me, a street (or near street) Commando with skinny street compounds just does not cut it anymore other than for motoring around a bit. Get on a half way decently sorted out track bike and you will see.

As for the subject of this thread, you have been describing in turn instabilities where the thread is about weave at moderately high to high speeds at moderate lean angles (or vertical).

Sticks and stones do break my bones and so does pavement. I'm sorry I had no idea anyone had issues with straight speed weaves in any cycle * that didn't have a serious fault or 3. A few Norton racers I asked said it was a non issue in bee lines. Only time weaves hit me is seriously mis behaving in public places on factory cycles. Never had corner weaves take me down so far and likely never will as I know how to flat avoid it no matter what, just like everyone else on normal type cycles, Isolastic or not,by going around more timidly than on my special. In the Ozarks I don't count leaning as real turns till 45' range, otherwise not much lateral loads to bother a cycle. Hope it gets solved securely for your fast pleasures.

Get a grip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXU2PwNq ... ture=share

Nice little message in there about recent evolutions in road racing.

Also note what wheel has control and what wheel is loosing traction.

YES YES YES direct pilot to bike control by feel and instinct alone no interfacing silly con digi brains. Very educational video of modern race cylce +expert, for a change, verifies my findings of the balloon tire greasy squirrely tails, can't make up its mind which section of patch to stick too. Also verifies them elites is still stuck in mere phase 2 counter steering handling limits so all they can do when they can't plant the extra power is give up and cross up to ease corner loads inward and on around while wasting time tires and traction. Verifies they can't hook up good power till after the apexes, poor things. Pull that stuff with Peel on their tail and I'd be a shift ahead of them by time they could wheelie off but no way to catch up w/o wheelie control so not a chance if a new turn very close. Just like at home one turn to get ahead and 2nd one to be back to solo pleasures again. Realize this is what I have to actively avoid doing routinely, nothing to it if I let go of cornering loads and giver' the gun, kinda relaxing if nott for the fencing and trees and ditches and dogs and goats. This is what makes me wonder about tackling drift cars and Karts or at least hanging with them not other cycles. I pretty much know what happens once one end or the other gets loose on purpose, on both fatso snow boards and snow ski obsoletes. I ain't no drift expert as I try to avoid it, but its no stranger to me so can't fool me with just smoke and nil go. To step out beyond this enters phase 3 to 5 all require straight steering into low and high sides, except, except except rally cars and Karts and Peel in phase 5 only on THE Gravel so far. If not power enough to turn asphault as loose as a goose then its the fastest way to fly off at a tangent.

I know does not compute, so just take it as all made up and rest easy with Ms Peel in my living room sleeping, gestating silently if fitfully.

:mrgreen: YES YES YES direct pilot to bike control by feel and instinct alone no interfacing silly con digi brains. Very educational video of modern race cylce +expert, for a change, verifies my findings of the balloon tire greasy squirrely tails, can't make up its mind which section of patch to stick too. Also verifies them elites is still stuck in mere phase 2 counter steering handling limits so all they can do when they can't plant the extra power is give up and cross up to ease corner loads inward and on around while wasting time tires and traction. Verifies they can't hook up good power till after the apexes, poor things. Pull that stuff with Peel on their tail and I'd be a shift ahead of them by time they could wheelie off but no way to catch up w/o wheelie control so not a chance if a new turn very close. Just like at home one turn to get ahead and 2nd one to be back to solo pleasures again. Realize this is what I have to actively avoid doing routinely, nothing to it if I let go of cornering loads and giver' the gun, kinda relaxing if nott for the fencing and trees and ditches and dogs and goats. This is what makes me wonder about tackling drift cars and Karts or at least hanging with them not other cycles. I pretty much know what happens once one end or the other gets loose on purpose, on both fatso snow boards and snow ski obsoletes. I ain't no drift expert as I try to avoid it, but its no stranger to me so can't fool me with just smoke and nil go. To step out beyond this enters phase 3 to 5 all require straight steering into low and high sides, except, except except rally cars and Karts and Peel in phase 5 only on THE Gravel so far. If not power enough to turn asphalt as loose as a goose then its the fastest way to fly off at a tangent.

How many times have ya heard salt lakers say they suddenly wished for dirt tract skills, well heres example that illustrates what it sort of looks like after phase 2 is exceeded. Every straight steering twitch presses that rear meat into more grip as same time as fights a low side by front wash out or rear spin out, a lot more, as the muddy stuff implies.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avUg2kD8Vj0[/video]


I know does not compute, so just take it as all made up and rest easy, Ms Peel is still in my living room sleeping, gestating silently if fitfully.

Crossing up with rear wheel spining as exhibited in the above referenced Youtube Motovudu video is not the fastest way around a corner on asphalt. The only point being made there was rider control of power and traction.

No weave

Well duh, but only point of our common agreement in your statement is that this fun smoking demo is not the fastest way around even though fun as can be, but we are in separate camps about how crossing up can work for or against sharper harsher cornering. Once ya start sliding wide game over for me to get on around ya. When I try to prevent slides going fast low and powerful on moderns they onset tank slap with chassis back lash into THE Hinge, just like ya see in the TT video of almost loosing it in wheelies over crests [walking around on the rear tire width] or the crashes of lost control trying to keep both tires planted - with limiting concept and bike constructions that depend on front tire and forks. I learned to by pass that at Keith Code's school which got me banned from returning : )

I'm impressed to groin pains watching the best bike/riders flinging one way and the next in tights at hi speed, but mostly how damn good/brave they are on controlling such unstable craft, but that's about only conditions my under powered Peel stands much chance of staying ahead. At some point of speed into tights/chicanes the bike much change lean angle and direction so far so fast humans don't have the strength or speed to turn forks or toss bike in time before shot right past - over the edge. To get past this limiting factor on Peel I depend on tripping her out into low sides to get the next instant high side saving grace.

I can not practice phase 3 turns and beyond on any other cycle but Ms Peel with any chance of getting away with it each time every-time. The way it works out in contests is where the hot shots are hard on brakes, Ms Peel is seeking best power band to point any lean off vertical trips her right out, so give her even more gas as I shoot past the slow pokes red lights - tripping out then popping up on increasing throttle to keep ahead of the increasing traction with only instants of hesitation in dragster-hill climber like acceleration. Snap down pop ups, as many as needed to turn the turn into a series of short straight up sprints punctuated by supermotard like backing into turns. Most supermotards can only do this a hi speed by using rear brake, some can do it by power alone like Peel except they ain't hooking up power like Peel because they are still only counter steering. Both ways can turn sharper harsher but only Peel's way ends up exiting rather faster than entry.

Ms Peel will twist up more than any un-tammed isolastic Commando because she tolerates, nay invites/enjoys way more twist loads of tire conflicts, storing the energy for as long as I hold the pressure on to release like a slingshot into new direction at apexes where other bikes are at least ability to accelerate, Peel gets a boost into new higher orbital speed, off a smash down tire patch which I spike with more engine torque just as frame and tire air spring rebounds to magnify the fling ahead. Rubber band slingshots and spear guns don't rebound but back to slack Neutral baseline state, not like an archery bow or diving board.

To Peel all turns look about the same, just differ in number of straights they need to divide up by a series of crashing sharply decreasing radius flings. There is no perfect line through turns for me on Peel, no best apex, just many choices of various ways around, mostly depending on how I want Peel aimed for best power planting by exiting time. On a bike like Ms Peel leaning don't mean or feel like much till 45' or more, which means still in normal freeway cruise mode like any big twin bagger feet forward counter steering easy rider.

Yet
If I twist up Peel to point it'd Hinge other bikes off the surface, she can be let off of to unwrap and tank slap *once* 1/2 cycle* back to normal lines of turning but w/o rebound antics or weave, though I do feel the wave pass though like a dog shaking off water from head out to its tail. But I Can't Let OFF> once committed to to go into a phase 3 and above turn on public hwy's or would crash like other bikes do going in too freaking fast to counter steer enough to matter a whitworth. If Peel had steering damper she'd crash as soon as I tried to tank slap into straight steer - would be like delaying the boom swing across deck of sail boat reversing tack, if not allowed to freely snap by wind or road force to the other side it can pull the boat-bike right over or just stop it in its own wake or splash down.

The only other sport that gives me similar G force on wrists and body sense to aim is slalom water skiing, which by gosh better not slip til using it to launch air borne over the rough wake, getting the rest of the turn done in air before the slap down on opposite edge bite deep in the water grip. I grantee one can low side and hi side on a fast slalom course and break stuff like hitting the ground, which brings us back to my strange sounding motto. If ya can't keep the loads on so front end is lifted out of interference ... SPLAT-Splash.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVA5W7mdGSc[/video]

In biology its bad juju to leave last shock as unpleasant memory implant so leave this flavor to linger on mind modeling molding into hobot camp.

Don't guess it will mean much to go into my imagined details about handling the combined phase critcal points of non-linear quantum-gravity physics when these turning forces on level surfaces gets applies in various grades, both for or against the lean and up or down in Einstiens relativity of motion and "gravity" direction. Yes I'm still drunk off yesterdays mere good as they get Combat joy rides, so still have a toe nail hold on everyone else's home planet.

I had 460 hp big block jet boat that'd do 55 with 8 people on deck, rather hard for skier to pull around but I could by about pulling wrists out of socket and blood out of brain, till so tired had to be helped out of water onto water level back porch, aching in jaws from the G's Grin's. We'd go dozens of miles upstream in Texas rivers till narrowed so tree's block wind for mirror smooth water. That is the closest its gets to sense of Ms Peel, just pure pulling accelerations into new directions of wind felt, nothing under you to notice-distract from molecular bonding with the surface's impressionable varying support all focused in a line from brain stem through heel out the keel fin. Remember than a boat going 50 mph makes its turn in 1/4 the distance of skier on a rope so skier gets a whiplash acceleration to catch up in time, WEEEDOGGEEDOOOTY!!!!! I used all my strength but not fighter pilot breath control saving life in impossible sharp ski hooks when pilot blinked at the helm and aimed my arc radius into a tree fall, but Ms Peel sure did in phase 4's going 55 straight into bluff face or rails in switch backs marked 10 mph.

I don't flash back on stunt aircraft or water ski or track school as bone memory of max G's.


[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEwdGCEgsNo[/video]


Ok now ya got the novice level flavor, lets step it up a phase shift into me and Ms Peels road skiing orbitals I'm talking about. Keep that nose up, all mass on one rear pivot and hang TF ON and just try to focus fast enough to see the next apex clearly. Please not how fast this guy changes directions - its done in the instant keel crests wake while skier pressing for all his might on heel to slap the tail back into traction so whole flank forces the rest of the turn as more of a straight than a turn. Faceting turns I call it. Not smooth but most jerky change of ballistics that ricochet w/o sliding. Chief Hop A Long hobot at Ricochet Rabbit Riding Range and Rifle Ranch. Home of The Breast Cleavage Challenge ya get tatoo'd for doing and Ms Peel for winning it.

Please note the above is more like lazy dazy flat tracker drifting w/o no bounds hardly on how far to relax in drifts, while what I'm talking about has rocks and empty spaces marking the path of the reality course. Note the distinct extra intensity of forces focused in shorter instants and how little area is able to do more work.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7PfjZRdwUM&feature=related[/video]

Zig Zagging in lane on half flat tires is one lesion I'll call "Oh NO Please Brer Fox Don't Throw me Into THE Briar Patch!" Students can come up with their own four letter nic names.
Here's example of phase 4 taken to the Ricochet energy plane. punch the Torque right at apex if your steed or psyche can take it.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1emsCX7y20&feature=endscreen&NR=1[/video]

Pure poetry!

But can you please clear up the following point you were trying to make?

hobot said:

my imagined details about handling the combined phase critcal points of non-linear quantum-gravity physics when these turning forces on level surfaces gets applies in various grades, both for or against the lean and up or down in Einstiens relativity of motion and "gravity" direction.

Click to expand...

yes, and please point out the relevance of this self immersion to the thread topic:

I had 460 hp big block jet boat that'd do 55 with 8 people on deck, rather hard for skier to pull around but I could by about pulling wrists out of socket and blood out of brain, till so tired had to be helped out of water onto water level back porch, aching in jaws from the G's Grin's. We'd go dozens of miles upstream in Texas rivers till narrowed so tree's block wind for mirror smooth water. That is the closest its gets to sense of Ms Peel, just pure pulling accelerations into new directions of wind felt, nothing under you to notice-distract from molecular bonding with the surface's impressionable varying support all focused in a line from brain stem through heel out the keel fin. Remember than a boat going 50 mph makes its turn in 1/4 the distance of skier on a rope so skier gets a whiplash acceleration to catch up in time, WEEEDOGGEEDOOOTY!!!!! I used all my strength but not fighter pilot breath control saving life in impossible sharp ski hooks when pilot blinked at the helm and aimed my arc radius into a tree fall, but Ms Peel sure did in phase 4's going 55 straight into bluff face or rails in switch backs marked 10 mph.

Click to expand...

That I got as much or more wrist pull on Ms Peel and sharpness of turns than by powerful ski boat slalom ski and similar reflexes to control force vectors came into play. Crashes could be similar too. If water or road surface too rough or wind too gusty then get air borne too easy, too long for unpredictable time out of traction control so have to back off for same reasons.
The Gravel is like choppy water while smooth tarmac clam water. Better bite/contral on the smooth surfaces than rough. Its why I also keep repeating Ms Peel is Flabbergastingly Fabulous. A ski on mirror smooth water w/o wind is also the closest sense of smooth motion I get on Peel. Skiing hard takes Tarzan athletics but on Peel its a breeze compared. I'm getting long in tooth and found them moderns need fit young bucks to control their bucking/wobble weaving. Slalom skis don't weave on a hard plane nor did Ms Peel. To me a day on a modern track bike fades on loading up for the ride home, not a day skiing or Peeling out.

I cut my motor speed teeth on small tear drop and 3 point hydroplanes so know about slides on water in smooth narrow canals to choppy bays. They too only steered from the rear ends keeping the front out of the friction picture, most the time too. On rails is kidie ride talk to me. Jumping tracks and waves is what i crave.

hobot said:

That I got as much or more wrist pull on Ms Peel and sharpness of turns than by powerful ski boat slalom ski and similar reflexes to control force vectors came into play.

Click to expand...

Mere childs play.

hobot said:

Crashes could be similar too.

Click to expand...

But not likely.

hobot said:

I'm getting long in tooth and found them moderns need fit young bucks to control their bucking/wobble weaving.

Click to expand...

This is a bit of the cat chasing its own tail. I suggest that the bucking/wobble weaving of the moderns has to do with rider "getting long in tooth".

But back to my question: can you please clear up the following point you were trying to make?

hobot said:

my imagined details about handling the combined phase critcal points of non-linear quantum-gravity physics when these turning forces on level surfaces gets applies in various grades, both for or against the lean and up or down in Einstiens relativity of motion and "gravity" direction.

Click to expand...

Sure would be nice just to challenge me logically instead of making a rant on something I devoted rest of my long in tooth life on for fun. I already stated I learned to out race moderns crashing by wobble weaves that onset, What I refuse to do on them any more is try to second quess when all their crazy splashes hit at once, which makes them unpredictable to a good degree. Its kills best riders so not academic and makes me angry this has not been solved. I ain't making errors to cause this, its innate in their behavior, I just no longer care to work that hard for such little gain in speed.

If you can not read my text or alter what I write then no way will you get it. The simple interpretation you ask about - is everything I've discussed so far only concerns flat an level-ish water or track, not doing the same stuff going up or down steeps in off banked grades or ditches. You got merest hint of what I'm refering too with the weave coming off Daytona banking. Up to a point its self correcting thank goodness. Anyway just have to wait and see what I'm talking about.