I took my old steering head bearings out, they seemed to have a slight bump. Maybe from the years of sitting in one place. Now I'm wondering if I should install "tapered bearings" and what is done to preload them. My bearing guy seems to think the stock spacer tube won't give enough support. He suggested cutting it down a bit and adding washers to support the inner bearing race. I did a search but didn't find much info, is this a typical upgrade & how is it normaly done? Is it worth doing or should I just stick with the stock type bearings? Thanks.
Tapered steering head berings, Yes/no & how. (2010)
- Thread starter gtsun
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gtsun said:
I would stick with the stock ones.
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I installed Timken tapered rollers in my headstock more than 20 years ago and haven't had any issues. The conical outer races press into the head tube and the bearings themselves lay right in. They should be preloaded slightly snug to begin with, and if not over-preloaded can be re-adjusted and re-lubricated many times. If you install them right, and do proper maintenance, you'll likely never wear them out.
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I have the standard bearings in my 750 and a tapered roller bearing kit in my 850. They both work well. The only problem I see with the roller bearings is the kit I bought did not include any seals and the lower bearing is exposed. Unless you never ride in the rain, it seems to me that bearing would rust out pretty fast.
Debby
Debby
My bike came with tapered rollers. As with the ball bearings the fixed races seat naturally on the steps in the head tube and the lower nut is torqued to 15lbs/ft, no more. Ok you can overtorque to seat everything then back off and retorque. Use a little loctite on the nut and maybe bend over the lockwasher but I can't see that does much good since it's not located anywhere. Mine has threadlock and the washer is just something for the nut to seat on.
Keith1069 said:
The tapered roller and the ball bearing differ in that the upper ball bearing actually doesn't seat on the step in the frame. It floats down against the spacer tube. The bearing internals are not preloaded by tightening the stem nut in the ballbearing setup. The outer cup races on the taper bearings do need to be seated against the steps for them to work the way they're designed, and setting preload on them is a delicate task. I just setup the bearings on my Honda and the shop manual says the preload is measured by the amount of drag at the grips not the torque of the nut on the stem.
The ballbearing set in the Commando has a lot going for them. They are cheap, sealed, and they are simple to swap out. I read someplace that if you take a bearing out with a hammer it's shot. The same probably goes for installation.
If your bearing guy thinks tapered rollers need the bearing spacer then I'd get another bearing guy.
I've thought about tapered rollers but the standard bearings seem to be long lasting and problem free. It would probably be gilding the lily and none of us here could be accused of that, could we?????
I've thought about tapered rollers but the standard bearings seem to be long lasting and problem free. It would probably be gilding the lily and none of us here could be accused of that, could we?????
) is not overly tight.I Googled 'gazinta', cracked me up.
There was some talk a long time ago about the distinct lack of roundness in the headstocks of Commandos. The piece is machined and then welded up, so it gets warped. It can be a problem when you use tapered bearings because the cup race is pretty thin compared to a ball bearing outer race. The tapered race conforms to the oblong shape and can negate the goodness of going to a tapered bearing to begin with. I checked one of mine and it was long, north south, by 0.007" top and bottom. Don't know if it's an issue, but sloth saved me from myself on this one.
There was some talk a long time ago about the distinct lack of roundness in the headstocks of Commandos. The piece is machined and then welded up, so it gets warped. It can be a problem when you use tapered bearings because the cup race is pretty thin compared to a ball bearing outer race. The tapered race conforms to the oblong shape and can negate the goodness of going to a tapered bearing to begin with. I checked one of mine and it was long, north south, by 0.007" top and bottom. Don't know if it's an issue, but sloth saved me from myself on this one.
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bpatton said:
Definitely sounds like something worth checking. There have been rumors for years about varitaions in the quality of Commando frames, from the first ones that cracked for lack of a brace tube under the main tube to the bought-out frames from Verlicchi. I do know that at one time, when the frames were made in house, they were of high quality and that Norton made the frames for the first Yamaha 4-stroke motocrossers.
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I realize that this is an old post, but...
Not so fast on the condemnation, Fullauto. The old style Harley Davidson wheels used tapered roller bearings and they were set to a 0.002-0.006 end play spec that was achieved with the spacer tube and shims.
For myself, I prefer a tapered roller bearing in the bottom and a ball bearing in the top of the steering head. The lower bearing carries all the weight and the top one only guides the stem to stay in line.
With a spacer providing no preload, I get nice light steering and solid support at the same time. YMMV
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baz
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BMW boxers use taper rollers for wheel bearings they are set up with a tube spacer and shims ,
But wheels go round and round (hopefully) it's interesting that manufacturers moved from cup and cone to taper rollers back to cup and cone again for more precise control I believe? .
Never had a problem with the norton ball race steering bearings myself so I would never change them ,
But wheels go round and round (hopefully) it's interesting that manufacturers moved from cup and cone to taper rollers back to cup and cone again for more precise control I believe? .
Never had a problem with the norton ball race steering bearings myself so I would never change them ,
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Just replace the stock bearings in my ZX-14 with tapered needle rollers. The stock ball bearings were 3-piece; a pressed-in race, a ball cage and a floating race that bears on the balls according to how tight the headstock nut is. No spacer tube for either, but regular ball bearings need a spacer to keep the torque load off the inner races.
Hmm. Eight long years have gone by. After long contemplation, still haven't changed my opinion. No point inventing a problem where there isn't one. I have nice light steering too. I didn't need tapered rollers to achieve it.
baz
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i agree there's enough things on a commando to worry about ,this is one of the things they got right. infact i have copied the commando setup on several customers custom builds with no issues even with long forks
Mr. Rick
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I noticed also that the washer 06-1912 was not "locating" anywhere, modified it to catch the webbing on the underside of the lower yoke.
Later I dropped it altogether when I relocated the turns signals down there.
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The lock washer should be "bent up" at the rear to locate against the flat on the bottom yoke and then "bent down" on to one of the flats of the nut.
Ian
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This seems to catch a few owners out as the 'tab' washer needs bending both up and down as Ian has described.
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