Stop damaging your motors with oil shut off valves

Status
Not open for further replies.
Lineslinger said:
I have seen an oil-less engine run for miles on slippery bearings. It got hot but it didn't blow. We dumb kids figured out from all that horrific rattling we needed to put oil in it and it was none the worse.
If it's going to cook a lot of run time is determined by engine size, design, designation and HP output.
Seconds? Maybe on a top fuel drag racing engine.





A new block design was cast with improved oiling channels to the big ends and mains.
It was called the 427 Side Oiler. Designed specifically for Nascar use in the mid 60's.
The gearheads found it in a big hurry.

View attachment 94838View attachment 94839View attachment 94842
Click to expand...
Side oiler 427 and SOHC 427 are two entirely different engines aren't they ?
The side oiler is pushrod.
 
How long will an engine run without oil?
Basically this is a moot question. One could similarly ask how long does a person live without circulation? There have been noticeable examples where people have been revived through CPR with no noticeable effects after a surprisingly long time but the point is the outcome is generally not good and you certainly don’t want to try it yourself.
For the sake of this discussion we can assume that any time an engine has no oil supply damage is occurring, which increases at an exponential rate, in exactly the same way we can say that fibrillating heart is is a direct trajectory towards death.
As an interesting aside, years ago the two local car dealers in our small town in southern NSW donated two old cars to take part in a fund raiser at our local show. (the ultimate Ford / Holden (GM) battle).
both cars were drained of oil and water and started an run with wide open throttles. people could bet on which car would last the longest and how long they would run. The interesting thing that both outlasted the test, they both just kept running. Of course the engines weren’t under load and massive internal damage would have been occurring.
It seems that numerous oil additives companies have demonstration engines they run at shows etc that seemingly run indefinitely without any oil after receiving their amazing snake oil treatment. As a marketing stunt I think a few have supposedly driven from Sydney to Melbourne in cars without oil. I can’t explain this but I also don’t know how the old ‘three card trick’ works either but I'm not about to start betting money on it.
Ensure our engines have a copious supply of clean, high quality oil!
yours in humor
Alan
 
Years ago I had a manual ball valve on my commando oil feed pipe
I'd forgotten to turn it on one morning
I got almost exactly 7 miles from memory before the engine started to rattle and complain
I immediately pulled over and turned the oil tap on
I just caught it in time I was very lucky that day
I wasn't hanging around on it either as I was late for work
 
Bike number 1, automatic ball valve type, been fitted for 10 years shut itself on Dutch motorway, engine disintegrated.
Bike number 2, automatic type, start of season start up, owner failed to check oil return to tank. Engine rebuildable but at great expense.
Bike number 3, manual valve, owner failed to open it post coffee stop, managed about 12 miles. Engine rebuildable at great expense.
Latest switch inhibited valves being sold in the UK, the wiring instructions could kill an owner but at least the engine may survive as good spares.
 
I mix STP in my motor oil when doing oil changes, have done so on all my old British bikes, I have got long life/mileage out of my motors, to me it just adds that little bit more protection, some might call it snake oil but to me it works, have owned my Norton now for 46 years and have been running STP in it for 40 years has well over 160k miles on it and only on if first rebore and still running original valves, it was a everyday rider most of its life, my old 81 Triumph Thunderbird used STP from the first oil change, I clocked up 250k km and only done a top end rebuild before selling it.
I put a shut off valve once on my Norton a few years ago since it been semi retired with a a safety clip to the kick start lever when it was turned off but after a few weeks decided to get rid of it and when parked anywhere some fool just might turn it off, but if I ride the Norton regularly have no problems with wet sumping at all and if I let it sit for a few months then it always goes up on the lift table and do any maintenance before taking it out and that's draining the sump no crawling on the workshop floor for me.
Back in the early 70s a good mate of mine had a old Dommie that wet sump when just parked it had a tap on the oil tank line, sometimes he forget to turn it on but once it started to rattle he turn on the tap, usually when he had a few drinks in him, yes young and silly, in them days everyone drank and rode/drive even the cops, but his Dommie always kept going even after a short run with the shut off valve turned off before turning it on.
So its up to what you desire to use to stop wet sumping but me just ride the bike regularly and no problems or any worries at all, let it sit for sometime then its always wise to go over the bike the night before any planned ride including draining the sump, really doesn't take that long and its all part of maintenance before any big ride, I am lucky here as we have no winter lay ups all year riding even in winter.

Ashley
 
Last edited:
Madnorton said:
Bike number 1, automatic ball valve type, been fitted for 10 years shut itself on Dutch motorway, engine disintegrated.
Bike number 2, automatic type, start of season start up, owner failed to check oil return to tank. Engine rebuildable but at great expense.
Bike number 3, manual valve, owner failed to open it post coffee stop, managed about 12 miles. Engine rebuildable at great expense.
Latest switch inhibited valves being sold in the UK, the wiring instructions could kill an owner but at least the engine may survive as good spares.
Click to expand...
Those nice little UK cutout valves that I've looked at have clear instructions and are really simple to wire in. The one sold by Kingpin is very neat.
The valves with a cutout really are a totally different risk animal from your engines 1 thru 3, the doomsday types.
 
Aaargh !
I am just about to fit my newly rebuilt engine into the bike.
Never had many issues with wet sumping before the rebuild because i rode the bike a lot and always ran thick SAE50 monograde.
It was my plan to use some of the recommended hightech synth oils in the new engine so i got a little paranoid about possible wet-sumping.
Yesterday i talked to a fellow Commando Owner who recommended fitting one of these: https://www.motorradrestauration.de/oelabsperrhahn_mit_zuendunterbrechung1.html
I think this threat has finally put me off buying one.
 
commandofastback said:
Aaargh !
I am just about to fit my newly rebuilt engine into the bike.
Never had many issues with wet sumping before the rebuild because i rode the bike a lot and always ran thick SAE50 monograde.
It was my plan to use some of the recommended hightech synth oils in the new engine so i got a little paranoid about possible wet-sumping.
Yesterday i talked to a fellow Commando Owner who recommended fitting one of these: https://www.motorradrestauration.de/oelabsperrhahn_mit_zuendunterbrechung1.html
I think this threat has finally put me off buying one.
Click to expand...
I'm with you.
The likelihood if a "system failure" is very, very, very small but the consequences are catastrophic.
Like @ashman I'll put up with manually draining the sump if I've had to leave the bike alone for a few months - very small penalty.
I believe there may actually be an advantage in some oil making its way down in a week or so - splash lubricating the critical cam/follower interface on start-up - before oil is returning from the head.
I love my Nortons - including their foibles!
Cheers
 
commandofastback said:
Aaargh !
I am just about to fit my newly rebuilt engine into the bike.
Never had many issues with wet sumping before the rebuild because i rode the bike a lot and always ran thick SAE50 monograde.
It was my plan to use some of the recommended hightech synth oils in the new engine so i got a little paranoid about possible wet-sumping.
Yesterday i talked to a fellow Commando Owner who recommended fitting one of these: https://www.motorradrestauration.de/oelabsperrhahn_mit_zuendunterbrechung1.html
I think this threat has finally put me off buying one.
Click to expand...
You haven’t even got a wet sump problem yet.

You’ll get advice good and bad from fellow owners. You can’t follow all the advice.
 
My bike wet sumps if I leave it standing. It is a nuisance, but there it is - the price of leaving it standing. The Mk3 timing cover probably slows the rate of wet sumping, but doesn't stop it. I will drain the oil from the crankcase before starting the bike, but the thought of putting the drained oil back in the oil tank doesn't appeal, I will always re-fill the oil tank with fresh oil.
 
My oil pressure gauge wants to know what all the fuss is about??

BTW - the only opinions you can change are your own.

FWIW…
 
Just ask Norman White what he thinks of any valves , I think he has earned a few quid from rebuilds over the years
 
My 71 will drain the oil tank over the span of a winter layup. I have a Comstock reed valve breather and it only takes a dozen or so kicks with the plugs out to put enough oil back in the tank to allow starting. I will still however, remove the valve assembly yearly just to make sure there is no crap on the screen or floating around in the bottom.-Belt and Braces anyone? On a side note my A10 would empty the oil tank in a few weeks if left sitting. After installing a SRM oil pump it can sit all winter and not loose a drop to the sump.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top