sticky fork seals

Recently I took apart my fork sliders,.... again. I was swapping over from the stock doughnut fork seal nuts to one's that I drilled to use with a pin wrench. I figured while I was there I would put in new fork seals even though the old fork seals weren't leaking. Ludwig had advised me to get the Ariete fork seals but I had a set of new AN ones already, so I used them. Holy CRAP, the new fork seals from AN are noticeablely sticky by comparison to the used AN one's that I removed, which prompts a bunch of questions... Yes, more questions...

Does anyone have any tricks to improve the AN fork seal performance? I read online about pulling back the lip and putting some special lube under the lip of the seal. Anyone do that?

Do they eventually "break in" over a reasonable amount of time?

BTW,..... does anyone know what the paper is supposed to do? Maybe keep the rubber seal from sticking to the bushing below it?? Why would that be a problem if they did? I really don't get what the paper does,...

I appreciate any ideas or comments,... snarky or serious.... thanks

I just found this, and it seems to be my situation and I'm going to give it a try..

The original seals were single lip, low friction but no protection from grit on the slider. The Ariete are double lipped, so one lip seals and the second keeps the grit away from the first but adds more friction. But the double lip also provides a gap that can be used as a reservoir for low friction lubricant. Not sure what the AN are, single or double lipped as not bought one.

The paper is to act as a seal, the steel outer casing on the original seals does not provide a seal as its against aluminium alloy so cannot conform enough to form a pressure seal. A 100% rubber seal would but as you have to turn off some of the OD on the Ariete seal so it fits then being rough it also could be a leak source so best used with the paper washer.

The AN seals seem like double lipped to me as I recall. I can't inspect them because they are currently installed. I performed the same procedure in the Dave Moss video and the friction from the seal was greatly reduced. On my initial installation I only wet the seal with fork oil, thinking that would be the appropriate lubricant. I ordered a 4oz tube of "slickoleum" which is probably just repackaged grease, but it's made for this application. In the mean time, I used the Jewel amber oil that Jim C recommended for something else and the improvement was immediately noticeable.

John, Thanks for your all the help you've given me on this ongoing project

Noleen sf-3 works for suspension seals. I've had some in the toolbox for a few decades and it is still the good stuff.

This video is a good example of where you could use some tinfoil dipped in water to rub over the chrome to remove any rust deposits and staining rather than using an abrasive paper.

Works just as well and is way kinder to the metal surface

o0norton0o said:

Does anyone have any tricks to improve the AN fork seal performance? I read online about pulling back the lip and putting some special lube under the lip of the seal. Anyone do that?

I appreciate any ideas or comments,... snarky or serious.... thanks

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A little fork oil in the inside of the seals before installing. Then run the sliders up and down a few times. Then with the sliders down, wipe the fork tubes dry and finally put the gaiters into place. Spray silicone will work as well but is so slick that the seals may allow some oil to slip by when in use.

marshg246 said:

A little fork oil in the inside of the seals before installing. Then run the sliders up and down a few times. Then with the sliders down, wipe the fork tubes dry and finally put the gaiters into place. Spray silicone will work as well but is so slick that the seals may allow some oil to slip by when in use.

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The little fork oil application did nothing to alleviate fork seal stiction. That was what I used initially when I installed the new seals. My old seals were not leaking and I was changing the seal retainer nuts for the one's that I had drilled for a pin wrench. I only changed the seals because I had the new ones in the bin already. I am a little amazed at how sticky the new seals are in comparison to the ones that have been in there for a while. (2 years maybe) I am seriously thinking about putting the old seals back in.

I've been testing modified dampers, so I've taken my wheel off, dampers out, and sliders apart close to 8 times last month. The new fork seals and this last damper swap completely changed the quality of any improvements I've been getting as I go along testing and making changes. I'm pretty surprised at the latest poor performance development, and because I changed 2 things at the same time, I can't really say that the new fork seals are solely responsible for the last change in performance. I have this special fork seal lube coming via UPS on Friday, so I'm going to try that even though I've already added some jewel amber oil to the seal area. The current dampers have progressive springs on them that are .63/.80 kg rated. They feel really stiff and the slider travel distance has been reduced in spite of having gone to a lighter fork oil. That's why I think it's fork seal related,... I'm also going to put the dampers that I had the best results with back in the forks to see if it's the dampers or the seal stiction.

Sounds like at least a few more long days taking things apart and making changes... Ludwig had already told me to use the ariete fork seals instead of the stock ones because they had much less stiction. I should have listened...

o0norton0o said:

The little fork oil application did nothing to alleviate fork seal stiction. That was what I used initially when I installed the new seals. My old seals were not leaking and I was changing the seal retainer nuts for the one's that I had drilled for a pin wrench. I only changed the seals because I had the new ones in the bin already. I am a little amazed at how sticky the new seals are in comparison to the ones that have been in there for a while. (2 years maybe) I am seriously thinking about putting the old seals back in.

I've been testing modified dampers, so I've taken my wheel off, dampers out, and sliders apart close to 8 times last month. The new fork seals and this last damper swap completely changed the quality of any improvements I've been getting as I go along testing and making changes. I'm pretty surprised at the latest poor performance development, and because I changed 2 things at the same time, I can't really say that the new fork seals are solely responsible for the last change in performance. I have this special fork seal lube coming via UPS on Friday, so I'm going to try that even though I've already added some jewel amber oil to the seal area. The current dampers have progressive springs on them that are .63/.80 kg rated. They feel really stiff and the slider travel distance has been reduced in spite of having gone to a lighter fork oil. That's why I think it's fork seal related,... I'm also going to put the dampers that I had the best results with back in the forks to see if it's the dampers or the seal stiction.

Sounds like at least a few more long days taking things apart and making changes... Ludwig had already told me to use the ariete fork seals instead of the stock ones because they had much less stiction. I should have listened...

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Since I've never had trouble with the seals I'm thinking it's not them - especially if oiled! Also, I'm trying to imagine how oil can change the slider travel distance. Are you saying that with no springs the seals somehow change the travel distance?

I recently had a customer have a similar problem and he's sure it's the bushings he bought somewhere he doesn't remember. I sent him bushings and seals - hopefully he will comment here or tell me the results.

In my case the bushings are Turcite from JSmotorsports and have been consistently in the forks throughout all the other changes. A lighter oil has can give less resistance to slider movement given the same valve settings. (my dampers have adjustable valves and I tried to open them to see if fluid resistance was causing the decreased travel issue) My point with mentioning the change in fluid viscosity to a lighter fluid was just to mention another variable change, but highlight that it was a change that wouldn't cause more resistance to slider motion. That only leaves the other 2 changes I made, which are the dampers with the progressive springs, and the fork seals which were both changed.

The fork seals are part of the problem without a doubt. Whether their stiction will change with the addition of the slickoleum grease, and also loosen up over time is not being ruled out at all. It was surprising to me at how much more stiction the new seals had, compared to the used ones that I removed, which did not leak. I know I have to remove the current dampers because if I put the best damper set up back in their place, then any stiction has to be from the new fork seals...

I'm on the fence whether I should just put the old seals back in when I swap out the dampers, because I do want to try the slickoleum product too. The more variables I have, the more elements my testing covers, but unfortunately that also means many more disassembling and reassembling to test that many more permutations of parts.

Thanks for your interest. I'm mostly back channel with people who are interested in my current project, and only mentioned it here to get some feedback because I was surprised at how sticky new fork seals are compared to the worn in ones... and was looking for confirmation that this is widely agreed upon as the standard situation. "New seals start out a bit sticky"....

o0norton0o said:

IThanks for your interest. I'm mostly back channel with people who are interested in my current project, and only mentioned it here to get some feedback because I was surprised at how sticky new fork seals are compared to the worn in ones... and was looking for confirmation that this is widely agreed upon as the standard situation. "New seals start out a bit sticky"....

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Understood. I'm out of feedback so I'm out.

Ariete supply their seal with Arisil wich is their own "special " silicone based ( with mystery additives) grease , but it works well ! somebody spoke here about the green Ari seals ( Kommando??) ... let us know what will be your best solution with your showa dampers , as I fancy to try a set !

The Green seals with the lowest friction are made by SKF, they do not do a 34.5mm seal. Also the OD on the 34mm flangeless seal for the Fox forks for mountain bikes is 44mm or even more so need to do some measurements to see if they fit.

ID of the hole for the seal is 47.7mm or 1 7/8", so it may be possible to use SKF depending on the sizes which they do not publish.

marinatlas said:

Ariete supply their seal with Arisil wich is their own "special " silicone based ( with mystery additives) grease , but it works well ! somebody spoke here about the green Ari seals ( Kommando??) ... let us know what will be your best solution with your showa dampers , as I fancy to try a set !

Click to expand...

I will try and put a report of some kind in the forum when I'm done testing. It's so hard to boil it down a single paragraph or two. I've written instructions for someone who I made a pair of dampers for and it was 9 pages long... It's a bit of a rabbit hole and I'm just following along learning and wondering if there's some best solution that solves every issue somewhere, but it seems like it's stick with 2 ends. One end is softness of ride and the other end is precision of handling. You can't get both ends of the stick in one hand... so it's compromise of one for the other regardless. The higher tech parts change that in some cases, but that principle doesn't change.

MTB SKF Green seal dimensions

I found a XNBR rubber low friction seal that works great but it has a slightly smaller OD. I tried it with a downsizing sleeve in the fork slider but that was too much trouble so now I use it with my upgrade extensions.

Today, I swapped out the damper cartridges with the progressive springs for the original modified pair with .80kg/mm springs which I began my experiments with. While I had the dampers out, the only friction on the sliders was the fork seals.... so I checked on their slipperiness.

Well, the verdict is in. The new AN fork seals are very sticky. With no damper cartridge in the forks and no axle connection between fork legs, each slider still sticks a lot, even with JS motorsport Turcite fork bushings If it was not for how buttery the old ones that I removed were, then perhaps I wouldn't notice how great the difference is now, but the new seals are sticky as CRAP by comparison to the worn in ones... I suppose they will "wear in" a bit just like the one's I took out, but I'm pretty disappointed so I have to journey further down the rabbit hole...

Funny how when you are chasing some kind of excellent performance that you can't compromise on any elements of the system or it becomes the factor that limits the result....

Edited to add: The slickoleum fork seal lubricant came UPS just as I was putting tools away, I lubed the seals and it definitely improved the stiction. I took it out with 2.5 silkolene, made one adjustment to compression and rebound before the rain clouds ended testing for today...

How’s the test going I’m just about to jump down this rabbit hole. I have some landsdown dampers with Andover double lip seals ready to go in this weekend. Waiting to see how the bushes feel before pulling the trigger on them.
Cheers for any info regarding

The new seals I bought went in "balls" tight and it's clear that they are not going to leak because of that. Originally, all I did was wet them with fork oil to install them. The oil didn't do much to make them slide better. The slickoleum seal lubricant makes them much better than they were with just oil on them. The slickoleum is clear and about the consistency of honey. I did a similar technique to get it into the seal as Dave Moss does in the video I posted above. It makes a noticeable difference, so I would recommend it.... Dave used regular axle moly grease which is thinner than the slickoleum, but most people have that on hand...


As far as the other parts of the testing are going, the damper rods on those disappointing dampers were 1-1/2" too short on the progressive spring pair. I noticed it when I laid them down next to the original test dampers that were going back in. I think that was also part of the issue with that pair. I've already swapped longer damper rods into that pair and a proper set of springs are on their way to replace those progressive springs. Then all I need to complete them is the rebound damper tubing because I didn't have any extra 5mm tube hanging around to remake the longer rebound adjusters which are necessary with longer damper rods....

Today is a decent day, so I'm going to get out there and do a test ride in a few...