Steering Head Bearing Spacer on a '70

Status
Not open for further replies.

David B

VIP MEMBER
Joined
Jun 22, 2014
Messages
77
Country flag
Hi guys,

As part of my '70 Commando rebuild I'm replacing the loose ball bearings in the steering stem with the sealed ones of later years. Do I need a special length bearing spacer or anything? I'm hoping the spacer is a drop in replacement like the sealed bearings. Just checking.

Dave
 
I can't provide a definitive answer to your question, but the change to sealed race head bearings coincided with a change of yokes.
I'm building a '69 at the moment, and I'm going with taper roller bearings.
 
You can also get bearings that are made to take the axial load and avoid the spacer. That's what I did, actually I think someone replaced mine before I got it. There was a thread about this years ago, probably around 05-06.
 
The early Commando would have cup and cone bearings and no spacer. The later ones would have sealed bearings and re designed to be fitted with a spacer and the steering stem is part of the top yolk. The taper roller bearing would be the closest to the cup and cone set up on the early Dominator type yolks and that is what i had
 
The later yolk that requires a spacer would need the length of spacer to exactly match the dimension between the shoulders of the frame where the bearings seat. Too short and you are axially loading the bearing, too long and the bearing outers could wander up and down in the frame. My early bike came without a spacer so was effectively using a sealed Ball race as a cup and cone. You have to decide if you're happy with the engineering aspects of that.
 
The early Commando would have cup and cone bearings and no spacer. The later ones would have sealed bearings and re designed to be fitted with a spacer and the steering stem is part of the top yolk. The taper roller bearing would be the closest to the cup and cone set up on the early Dominator type yolks and that is what i had

Deep groove sealed bearings are the way to go, no adjusting and last for ever. I've modified a few makes over the years and will do the same to my Dommie 850 project. The spacer needs to be a few thou' longer than the measurement between the head stock bearing seats, a running fit over the stem spindle, and an OD smaller than the inner race of the bearing not to catch the seal.

Dave
 
I can't provide a definitive answer to your question, but the change to sealed race head bearings coincided with a change of yokes.
I'm building a '69 at the moment, and I'm going with taper roller bearings.
Do you not need the spacer tube, if you use taper roller bearings?
 
Do you not need the spacer tube, if you use taper roller bearings?
No - it would be bad to use a spacer with tapered bearings. They are pre-loaded to a certain value and a spacer would prevent that.
 
No - it would be bad to use a spacer with tapered bearings. They are pre-loaded to a certain value and a spacer would prevent that.
Thanks.Have just ordered taper roller bearings.Do the taper bearings still require a washer?
 
If I were changing my S/N bearings to tapered roller style - understanding that was not a standard feature offered on these bikes - I'd look up schematics of bikes that came with those bearings and see how they configured washers/seals/etc. Adjusting that style bearing is something you will need to master but no big deal.
 
Thanks.Have just ordered taper roller bearings.Do the taper bearings still require a washer?

I ended up using tapered bearings. I believe I used the dust cap that came with the bearing kit between the lower tapered bearing & the fork bottom yoke. No clearance issues or washer needed then.
 
Lots of good info on this elsewhere. This is a nice treatment off the NOC site.
Stephen Hill

Fitting taper roller head bearings
The earlier Norton steering stems suit the adaption to taper rollers much better, because of the fine threads make it easier to adjust the bearing clearance. Also with the early design, since the top nut locks the bearing adjustment nut under the top yoke without altering the clearance, it is inherently a better system to use with taper rollers. The nut on the later system was designed to clamp up rigidly, and its coarse threads are not well suited to adjusting the bearing clearance. With the later stem, you must use a spacer as I describe below.

If you have the earlier style Commando (or Atlas, or Dommi) stem, don't worry about this ... just fit the rollers, and proceed with adjusting the clearance with the nut beneath the upper yoke, and lock it with the top nut. With the later system, you must use a spacer between the inner races, so that you end up with the correct bearing clearance when the lower nut is tightened fully. How you arrange this spacer is a matter for personal ingenuity, but in the past I've made up a tubular steel spacer that is a little too short (i.e. causes the bearings to bind), and then gotten the proper fit by means of adding thin shims between the end of the spacer and an abutment that bears against the top bearing's inner race. You can get as fancy as you like here, but the idea is like the shimming system used in the Norton Isolastic mountings.

Do your initial fitting on the bench, and remember to pack the bearings with grease. However, before you make any final adjustments, ensure the outer races are fully seated in the frame headstock .. no matter how tightly you press them in, they will always 'seat' for the first several hours of use, and become loose. Thus, get the adjustment close, and then go for a ride. While making the final adjustments, keep in mind that the objective is to ensure the rollers can roll and not skid, nor hammer from looseness when loaded under rotational force. That is the main reason for light pre-loading, and this is quite OK with a taper roller, while it is very bad practice with a purely radial bearing such as a ball type. The other reason for pre-loading taper roller bearings (as in Velocette main bearings) is to ensure roller contact even when surrounding alloy (such as the crankcases) expands. With headstock bearings, expansion from heat is not an issue, and the adjustment is much less critical. As long as you take up the clearance so there is no bearing 'shake' when under load, things will be fine.

As things bed down, clearances will open up, and you should be very careful to remove shims to regain a proper fit. Check the fit by rolling the bike forward, and applying the front brake quickly. The feel should be free of shake, but there should be no binding at all in the steering. One last comment: - whereas most Japanese designs used angular contact bearings in the old days, virtually every one of their designs in recent years has a headstock fitted with taper rollers.

Greg Kricorissian (grkricor@ccs.carleton.ca) on NOC-L 26th. Nov 1997
 
I ended up using tapered bearings. I believe I used the dust cap that came with the bearing kit between the lower tapered bearing & the fork bottom yoke. No clearance issues or washer needed then.

Anyone know where you can get this dust cap other than with a bearing set? I have a set of bearings, but no dust cap. It seems prudent that something is needed under the lower bearing to keep the grease in and the water and dirt out. I have seen photos of a metal cap with a cemented O-ring in steering head bearing kits for Japanese bikes.
 
The Japanese parts department might be the best place to look for that
 
Timing is everything. I am working on a 69 Commando S and converted the front end to sealed bearings. We used NAPA P62052RSJ bearings. The spacer used on later model Commandos is about 1/4 in shorter than what you need, so it cannot be used. My neighbor and Commando expert machined a spacer 5.250 in and it fit perfectly. Use the same type of pipe as the later model bikes. 1 in ID and 1.25 in OD. I would include pictures in this post but we put the front end together yesterday.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top