Statement of affairs.

TonyA said:
With all the bad news , it's no wonder ! I still think in the end the Norton 961 will be desirable and sought after .
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Of course it will, it is a good looking bike. Despite the sporadic manufacture and problems they sold well. Which surprises why TVS do not carry on with it with the issues sorted.
 
TonyA said:
With all the bad news , it's no wonder ! I still think in the end the Norton 961 will be desirable and sought after .
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The passage of time, limited numbers, drop dead gorgeous, tech issues (almost) sorted and proven mileage appearing in the group - I wholeheartedly agree. At some stage in the not too distant future you won’t be able to purchase one new. Let’s see what happens then.

I’m at a loss as to why TVS are not continuing with this model. The fixes would be easily engineered. It can only be due to difficulty in meeting EU regs right? What else would lead to this decision, for a bike that is already 99% developed? Easy additions to the model range surely!?! And axe the Dominator!!! Possibly the most beutiful bike Norton have ever built (warning - Personal Opinion Zone!). WTF!
 
Stephen_Spencer said:
The passage of time, limited numbers, drop dead gorgeous, tech issues (almost) sorted and proven mileage appearing in the group - I wholeheartedly agree. At some stage in the not too distant future you won’t be able to purchase one new. Let’s see what happens then.

I’m at a loss as to why TVS are not continuing with this model. The fixes would be easily engineered. It can only be due to difficulty in meeting EU regs right? What else would lead to this decision, for a bike that is already 99% developed? Easy additions to the model range surely!?! And axe the Dominator!!! Possibly the most beutiful bike Norton have ever built (warning - Personal Opinion Zone!). WTF!
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The problem is the bikes are not that reliable and people get to hear of all the problems and most people don't want to get involved with the technical fixes .You really need to be an electrician and a mechanic to keep these on the road and therefore only a tiny percentage of motorcycle riders will want one. I am only too pleased to have mine serviced Once a year by Norton that's the only way to keep it going.. so glad they are going to be there in future. Of course what would be welcome is someone to start up in business in the UK being a 961 expert who could recommend and fit all the best improvements that are needed.... I would be a customer... then buy up the stock from all the dealers unsold (at rock bottom prices) and sell them as fully sorted models with confidence. Actually the new Norton... Could do this if it wanted to at Solihull. Or the owners club which needs a purpose in life
Its a great bike for all to see, everyone loves the looks, the sounds ..but its really got to work.
I wish Norton every success with the new range that it needs now to move on.
 
Dave_sheppard said:
The problem is the bikes are not that reliable and people get to hear of all the problems and most people don't want to get involved with the technical fixes .You really need to be an electrician and a mechanic to keep these on the road and therefore only a tiny percentage of motorcycle riders will want one. I am only too pleased to have mine serviced Once a year by Norton that's the only way to keep it going.. so glad they are going to be there in future. Of course what would be welcome is someone to start up in business in the UK being a 961 expert who could recommend and fit all the best improvements that are needed.... I would be a customer... then buy up the stock from all the dealers unsold (at rock bottom prices) and sell them as fully sorted models with confidence. Actually the new Norton... Could do this if it wanted to at Solihull. Or the owners club which needs a purpose in life
Its a great bike for all to see, everyone loves the looks, the sounds ..but its really got to work.
I wish Norton every success with the new range that it needs now to move on.
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Agreed, but we can't view Norton on its own with respect to technical difficulties. It is not as though other marques are fault free. Certain of Triumphs water cooled Bonneville range have significant issues including brake problems and gearbox failure - apparently there have been many instances of bikes getting stuck in gear. Some have had 2-3 fixes and it is still occurring. I know that the 961's problems are more varied and certain are potentially catastrophic (gearbox/split yoke etc) but all things in context right!?

BMW motorcycles - 40% anticipated failure rate within the first four years - Vorsprung Durch Technik!
 
Madnorton said:
Not according to latest trade regulations out this month. The bikes must have been built by the end of December if made in the EU or actually in the EU prior to the end of December. Total registrations will be limited EU wide based on past sales as well to avoid flouting. This applies to the 27 EU states only, and was introduced due to covid. The UK has not adopted this regulation the last time I heard. So, it is pre register or fudge the date of manufacture. Or seeing as we have left the EU totally ignore it.
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Ignore the EU! Whatever next? :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
 
The regs are clear, nothing EU 4 made in Europe after 31st March 2020 can be sold post 1st Jan. Retailers must register to sell EU 4 stock held on that date by the middle of next year.
The ACEM has this recently updated guidance on it's website.
This may not apply to the UK sales, but any UK made bike built and supplied after March 31st must meet EU 5 regs. The UK manufacturers have agreed this.
 
Some good news, existing models of EU 4 approved bikes will need GB approval and can be sold in the UK from 1st of Jan. The approval looks straight forward to obtain as it was an existing model with EU approval.
The UK withdrew from the EU type approval system in 2018. New models made from 1st Jan will need GB approval, but it says EU approval will be sufficient evidence for approval, but does not say whether that is 4 or 5.
Only excess stock of EU 4 bikes as of the 15th March 2020 maybe sold in the EU, but permission will be needed from each member state.
Looks like the 961 will be sold in the UK, and elsewhere but not Europe, unless any dealer there was sat on unregistered bikes on the 15th March.
Could be some good bargains next year, as it would be possible to shift EU 4 bikes from the EU to the UK and sold here next year without dealers having to register what they had in stock and hope to get permission to sell them.
 
Stephen_Spencer said:
The passage of time, limited numbers, drop dead gorgeous, tech issues (almost) sorted and proven mileage appearing in the group - I wholeheartedly agree. At some stage in the not too distant future you won’t be able to purchase one new. Let’s see what happens then.

I’m at a loss as to why TVS are not continuing with this model. The fixes would be easily engineered. It can only be due to difficulty in meeting EU regs right? What else would lead to this decision, for a bike that is already 99% developed? Easy additions to the model range surely!?! And axe the Dominator!!! Possibly the most beutiful bike Norton have ever built (warning - Personal Opinion Zone!). WTF!
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I imagine that although TVS want to create a 'premium' bike they also want it to sell in volume. I also imagine that they have taken a good look at sales/demand over the past 8 years and concluded that the demand isn't there. A 'magic' number of 43 (or 44?) orders/deposits taken for the last 961's to be produced was mentioned, that is a far cry from the 10 a week that SG claimed given that we are nearly 12mths since the last 961 rolled out.

I doubt that TVS have benchmarked the 961 against the EU5 requirements, I don't think the 961's fully complied with EU4 as I'm sure I was told (Clem) or read/saw video suggesting that Norton had some kind of dispensation being a low volume producer (?). Maybe TVS are able to ship the last 961's using the same rubber stamped paperwork.
 
The cynic in me had wondered at the time whether the multiple specials they kept on releasing were a means of staying within low volume rules.
 
Madnorton said:
The regs are clear, nothing EU 4 made in Europe after 31st March 2020 can be sold post 1st Jan. Retailers must register to sell EU 4 stock held on that date by the middle of next year.
The ACEM has this recently updated guidance on it's website.
This may not apply to the UK sales, but any UK made bike built and supplied after March 31st must meet EU 5 regs. The UK manufacturers have agreed this.
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The cynic in me suspects that as the UK are officially out of the E.U. on December 31st, G.B. will become part of a dumping ground alongside other non EU countries for all those bikes and cars and trucks that do not meet EU 5 regs after March 31st.
 
Bernhard said:
The cynic in me suspects that as the UK are officially out of the E.U. on December 31st, G.B. will become part of a dumping ground alongside other non EU countries for all those bikes and cars and trucks that do not meet EU 5 regs after March 31st.
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'Dumping ground' Bernhard??? Not sure the consumer will be forced to buy anything they don't want.... But as someone who has driven/rode for the past 47 years without ABS etc, I don't think I'll mind not having it....
 
EstuaryBoy said:
'Dumping ground' Bernhard??? Not sure the consumer will be forced to buy anything they don't want.... But as someone who has driven/rode for the past 47 years without ABS etc, I don't think I'll mind not having it....
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You‘re stuck with ABS on new bikes I think, as that was a Euro4 thing.

I certainly hope we don’t become a dumping ground for EU cars and trucks, the roads are hazardous enough now without having a load of new ‘wrong hand drive’ cars and trucks to contend with !
 
worntorn said:
The air-cooled Bonneville are another, a bit boring to ride perhaps, but with a little maintenance they run forever.
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Quite a few 100,000+ Km Hinckley air-cooled Bonnies on the Triumph Rat forum.
I don't have that kind of mileage, but my T100 never let me down in 13 years.
 
I deleted my post as the brand thing can get like politics, nobody moves.
Reality is you can purchase a new Triumph and go riding without a tool kit or having triple A on speed dial.
Glen
 
worntorn said:
I deleted my post as the brand thing can get like politics, nobody moves.
Reality is you can purchase a new Triumph and go riding without a tool kit or having triple A on speed dial.
Glen
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Agreed and if I were honest, I would have to say that I have never really ridden the Norton without the thought of mechancal gremlins just niggling away at the back of my mind. As soon as I start building the confidence points something minor will occur. The way I use the bike though I am never that far from home. Never owned a Triumph but generally modern turn-key-go machines. That’s what I keep the Kato for :)
 
worntorn said:
I deleted my post as the brand thing can get like politics, nobody moves.
Reality is you can purchase a new Triumph and go riding without a tool kit or having triple A on speed dial.
Glen
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My friend went to pick up his new £20k Rocket 3 R from the dealer yesterday and had to leave it there as they couldn't get it to start :).
I think it was probably more to do with the dealer's lack of knowledge than a problem with the bike itself though.
 
comet said:
My friend went to pick up his new £20k Rocket 3 R from the dealer yesterday and had to leave it there as they couldn't get it to start :).
I think it was probably more to do with the dealer's lack of knowledge than a problem with the bike itself though.
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Best place for it :D:oops:
 
comet said:
My friend went to pick up his new £20k Rocket 3 R from the dealer yesterday and had to leave it there as they couldn't get it to start :).
I think it was probably more to do with the dealer's lack of knowledge than a problem with the bike itself though.
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Not a dealer to recommend then, surely the PDI was completed and bike started as part of that process. Would have thought that they would have process in place prior to customer collection.
 
Fast Eddie said:
Best place for it :D:oops:
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Interesting and good to know. I think it looks and on paper a spectacular bike but I'm not going to pull the trigger any time soon. A local dealership dumped Triumph. Wondering if its the product, the support or the dealership itself.
 
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