Smoke?

OK, I didn't mention when I started up the S on Christmas Eve, it smoked like crazy for about 3-5 seconds. Filled the garage with burning oil smell/white smoke. Hasn't done this before. It did sit for exactly a month on the centre stand between starts. Is this something I need to worry about? I'll probably start it once more before I put it away for the winter so I can see what happens (outside). Straight VR-1 Valvoline SAE50, so in the 45 degree temps (and the bike was probably colder than that in the 30's at night) it was rather hard to push over, took me about 10 kicks to get it going in about 3 sessions. Got me breathing hard. Really stank too. But from then on it ran perfectly, got back from a short ride and idled nicely without a whole bunch of engine noise, it seems to take a mile or two to get the head lubed and stop the valve noise.

Any comments?

Dave
69S

Did you look in the oil tank before you left. ?
If more in it after you came back than before, you know where it has been.
Yep, wet sumpin....

Hi Dave,
Sounds like a classic case of wet sumping to me.
Did you ever install that oil line valve I sent to you?

GB

Nah . , wear a mask . The excess will keep it preserved till summer .

Actually , laying it up , should really have fresh oil in it , if youre not fitting the spiked tyres .

Oil Recomendation , is 30 , 40 , or 50 , according to conditions . So state is par for course .

Youll have to use 30Wt for raceing on the Ice . :wink: :mrgreen:

GB, no I never did install that valve. It's still sitting on the bench. Still thinking about it, and haven't had things apart yet.

Rohan, yes, I always look in the oil tank and see the lack of oil, but nothing on the floor so I know it's all in the sump. This thing wet sumps in about 2 days despite my attempt at honing the pump. It's always been like that.

It just may be that I have never started it in such cool weather, however it was a nice Christmas eve ride. Doesn't get much better than that here.

I'll just chalk it up to winter experience. It was pretty exciting when I saw white smoke coming out of the connection between the header and the silencer though, and then looked back to see the whole garage filled with white smoke. But before I could respond, it quit, so I guess the oil pump is working.

Don't know if Jim's sump breather will help, probably not, but I'm going to get it.

Dave
69S

Trixie intermittently goes through phases where she smokes *After* running 3-5 seconds then clears mostly up in 10-15 sec. Other times she starts w/o hardly a hint of smoke. A few months prior she smoked immediately and for most a minute out RH side then switched sides for about a month. I found air filer boots had slipped a crack that i suspect THE Gravel Dust got in to score bores but seems to have sealed back up. Last few times in lower 30's starting she didn't smoke. I try to remember to leave the pistons near TDC. I suspect valve guides in your and my case as oil pressure reaches head then head swells em to seal again. I though I'd find oil fouled plugs but nope pale tan in center and dry soot on rim. I start and hold rpm in mid 2000 zone to save cam and clear sump for about a minute then let her settle to fast idle 1200ish till warmed some before easy rolling loads til fully warmed in about a mile in lower gears before I get to 4th. I feel guilty as hell spending much time in lower gears especially and most certainly in 1st d/t its thin bush proneness to dissolve.

Until yours or mine smokes with any consistency can't diagnose much so will just have to open door to or start outside in the wind or fog the place up.

Is actually not a bad thing , for the first minute or two , as you know its oiling . Not Dry Startup .

Never had the bother , maybe once a touch for 5 seconds on the Norton . But the Triumph , with a Unit oil tank ( )
temporarilly fitted , the return tube was awkward and kinked / tight turn / wrinkle . Wet sumped a trifle and smoked for the entire day . The old return in tank squash / weld / drilling to restrict return to pressurise rockers is applicable ??

The theory , at least . If theres constriction in the return system , its apt to catch a bit in the sump when its slow or
surgeing conditions . With a Compressor , blowing through the whole return system at 80 psi lets you have a listen to any whistling , which is indicative of where its catching .

Id done the ' hole or two ' in the case , breather and return gallery , as per N O C notes , which I cant see there . :?

Dog,

Did it smoke from one pipe only ?.

The symptoms sounds very much like a weaping exhaust guide ( will often occur after sitting for extended periods, this is something that YOU should be punished for ).

Not worth worrying about, unless of course you have some money to waste.........................If you do, I'd recommend lap dances instead.

Smoked from both pipes equally dense. Sure a lot of smoke for the few seconds it smoked. Head only has 500 miles on it from Leo Geoff's total rebuild with new seals (original didn't have any), and the bronze guides. Maybe still breaking in. Otherwise ran fine. I just never saw it do this before, maybe a bit of smoke like moisture on startup, but not like this. Usually when I start up, I only smell the avgas. I'm not going to worry about it for now unless it gets to be a regular feature.

Dave
69S

Sounds like a classic case of wetsumping to me. Check oil level in the tank before starting if it has sat for a while. If all the oil is in the sump it is possible to blow out the drive side oil seal when you start it.

When I first got my 750 I was baffled by seemingly-random hard starting. It would fire right up then die and I'd have a hard time restarting it. Turned out the problem was a heavy case of wetsumping. The bike would empty the oil tank in a week. Draining the sump and refilling solved the starting problem. These days I drain the sump and refill if the oil level is below the strainer.

Debby

May be a good winter to put on the ball valve I got with an ignition disabler switch. It's hard enough for my ancient feeble brain to remember to turn on the fuel and lights and then turn them off when I get done. That's why I've made a habit of pulling the fuse when I put it in the garage. It's supposed to be in the mid 50's again later this week.

Dave
69S

I got Trixies points good AAU installed last pm and pleased she only smoked a few minutes from wet sump then on fine tuning the timing barely smoked at all. Also pleased just stepping on the lever got er going easier than ever even cold. Put in 40 wt to ride out today in mid 40's F. Nature of our obsolete bikes to huff and puff smoke to some degree.

Dog,

My bike was wet sumping as badly as yours, I fitted the steadfast anti wet sump valve and the problem was solved.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Anti-wet-sum ... 53eab6b39f

The bike now has 1500 miles on it and no more wet sumping ( sold the bike a month or two ago, the new owner is very happy ).

Well, I just found it to be a real pain to have to drain the sump and pour the oil back every time it sat for a week.

For 15 years I had a simple on/off WOG (water, oil, gas) valve in the feel line, just had to remember to turn it on!

About a year ago I got CNW's inline one way valve and problem solved, no sumping and nothing to remember.

DogT said:

May be a good winter to put on the ball valve I got with an ignition disabler switch.
Dave
69S

Click to expand...

Dave, could you describe that valve?
Thanks, Bob

Hi Bob,
This is the valve Dave is talking about. I don't know what he has for a switch.



This is what it looks like installed on my bike.

Yeah, that's the one, I just haven't decided on what kind of switch yet, but it shouldn't be hard. On the early bikes there are only 2 wires off the ignition switch going to the coils and other stuff and that makes it pretty simple. I've got a little micro-switch I'm thinking about employing, it just needs to be good enough to stay on when riding (vibration) and supply the 2-4 amps for the Pazon. I'm not too thrilled with the handle to the hose clamp idea, but it is simple.

Bob, check out this thread post66314.html?hilit=%20valve#p66314

As a side issue, I was thinking about using the micro-switch on the front brake too and get rid of that sponge of a cable that resides there. I've got the front brake working decently and now even have the high friction RGM pads to install. This could be a big improvement. The Triumph guy that rode it this summer was really impressed with my current front drum (original). I think it was his first time on a Norton. I notice it fades after a couple of hard hits though.

Dave
69S

Josh Cox said:

Dog,

My bike was wet sumping as badly as yours, I fitted the steadfast anti wet sump valve and the problem was solved.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Anti-wet-sum ... 53eab6b39f

The bike now has 1500 miles on it and no more wet sumping ( sold the bike a month or two ago, the new owner is very happy ).

Click to expand...

those things suk - i fitted one and it stuck close (after a few years on the bike by the way) - good thing i was anal and caught it before it totally damaged the engine
so yeah there are those "i used it for years blah blah blah"

and then those rare one who have had them fail - with some have $$$$ a result

deal with a little smoke, oil, drain you sump etc etc

Pull intake valve cover,inspect with strong flashlight for presence of valve seals. Don't laugh.Mine were not installed after a pricey headshop valve job.Also always new seals every time the head off..Initial smoking startups then clearing up is usually valve guides. Install reed breather valve.