Sir Eddy's Rocket

Well we have got the roller back up and man there is a lot of work to be done. Doug and Dave came out and we got it mocked up so we can start in getting a plan on how it will come together. We are winging the mono shock for two reasons one is for stability and two we don't need someone protesting saying that the Norton never was produced with a mono shock. As I say we have a lot to do... Les Barker has ordered the custom pushrods and the billet crank should be done next week then it is time for Les to assemble the lower end and figure out the cam timing with the one off 270/450deg. firing cycle.

Can anyone let me know if Norton ever produced a bike on slimline featherbed frame with a wheelbase longer than 56.75 inches listed in Specs? I need documentation of a 58 inch wheelbase or longer for the new BUB rules for 2013.

Thank you!
* http://s1282.photobucket.com/albums/a530/pbs39/

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You've piqued my curiosity now. Sorry I don't have an answer to your question, but I do have one of my own. I run a featherbed framed Norton in the modified class with BUB, so any new wheelbase rules interest me. I haven't seen any new 2013 AMA rules on the BUB site yet, so if there are some significant changes, I'd sure like to know about them. Current 2012 rules allow the wheelbase to be 10% over stock in the modified frame classes. Is that changing for 2013? Or is the wheebase on Sir Eddy's machine more than 10% over?

Ken

Ken,
You are correct that the maximum wheel base allowed is + 10% over stock. It states in the BUB 2012 regulations that this change is Effective for 2013" Maximum total wheelbase shall not exceed factory OEM dimensions by more than + 10%" We are in spec with the current rules but wanted to see if there were any wheelbases that would allow us to go a bit longer. I would love to talk with you about racing on the salt and discuss anything that we may miss with the rules or setup for Modified and Modified Partial Steamling Class. This was dream of my Dad Sir Eddy's , he passed away 10-28-12, I will be continuing to fulfill his dream. He produced high quality finned covers for Norton's to help fund this dream that he sells on EBAY.
Please let me know the class you are running and reach out to me if you can.

Thank you, Paul 503-820-1145

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NORTON-POLISHED ... a2&vxp=mtr

Whats the story behind that head - that sure is some combustion chamber ?!!
What sort of numbers does that pull on a dyno ? (on what fuel ?).

Jist curious.....

Hi Paul,

I'll give you a call to talk salt racing, but I'll provide some more info here. Who knows, someone else may find it interesting. I talked to your dad several times while he was building the bike, but never met him in person. He was very enthusiastic about it, and I really enjoyed talking to him.

I'm running a 1959 wideline featherbed frame with several different Commando engines. It's my old AHRMA race bike, and I originally ran it in roadrace trim, with a 750 cc standard stroke engine. This is a shot of the bike at Bonneville in my first time on the salt, with SCTA back in 2001, pretty much just the way it was raced in AHRMA 750 Sportsman class.



I took the bike back to roadracing for a while, but converted it back for landspeed racing at the BUB meet in 2006, this time with a short stroke 750 engine. This is me on the bike at speed, followed by a shot of the bike in the pits.






I converted the bike back to roadracing again, but am now setting it up for landspeed racing next year. I've put a 920 cc engine in, and am adding nitrous oxide, and am bulding a 1007 cc engine for it. No pictures of it yet. So far the bike has set 3 SCTA records, and one AMA record, but they've all been quickly raised by other bikes.

I've also run it a couple times at El Mirage, but no records yet. I'm hoping to change that in 2013.

Ken

No rear suspension at all on the salt now - is there a reason behind that ?
Neat pics...

Rohan,
This is called "full-squish" combustion chamber. Les Barker from Little Engine Service and Sir Eddy have spent hours on development on this head with oversize valves, major intake porting, welded up exhust ports and needle roller rockers etc. etc... The goal is 111 to 122 CFM.
You can read up on full-squish combustion online, my dad believed in it 100%.

Thanks - I've seen a lot of discussion between full squish and bathtub exponents, just wondered about the results. Is this the engine that revs quite high ?
Fuel ??

Ken,
Pretty cool stuff, so you ran Modified and Modified Partial Streamlings Pushrod (Gas) 750cc? What type of speed with what esimated HP?
One of the first things I noticed as well was no rear shocks as well? I am very interested in talking with you to discuss running on the salt.
Great pics, thank you for sharing. It seems my dad talked to a lot of people, it's great to hear! I am going to need all the help I can get so that when we get there we have no surprises...

Thank you,

Yes quite high to a tune of 10,500 to 11,000 rpm... We are going to run this is the gas class M amd MPSPG 500cc .

Rohan said:

No rear suspension at all on the salt now - is there a reason behind that ?
Neat pics...

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Sort of. I had longer shocks to jack up the rear end a bit to get quicker turn-ins for road racing, as well as flatter triple clamps in front to bring the trail back to a reasonable value. When I took it to the salt for the second time, I wanted to lower the rear for more high speed stability, as well as dropping the whole bike a bit lower. I didn't have enough clearance between rear tire and seat to just buy shorter shocks with normal travel, so I made up some struts instead. That's pretty common on landspeed bikes. When the salt is in good condition, it's really flat, almost like concrete, so you don't really need much in the way of suspension. This time around, where I expect much higher speeds, I might reconsider that choice, and keep the rear shocks and springs. When we were running the Norton powere streamliner, I had a custom shock made by Works Performance with a very heavy spring and not much travel, because we thought at 200 mph it would be nice to have at least some compliance in back. We never got anywhere near those speedds before I gave up on running a liner, so didn't really test out that theory.

Ken

Ken,

You are a good dude to have on here.

Is it just me, or does anyone else hear that?? That's the sound of a quality signal:noise ratio on the forum.

Holmeslice said:

Ken,

You are a good dude to have on here.

Is it just me, or does anyone else hear that?? That's the sound of a quality signal:noise ratio on the forum.

Click to expand...

+1

Son of Siredward said:

Ken,
Pretty cool stuff, so you ran Modified and Modified Partial Streamlings Pushrod (Gas) 750cc? What type of speed with what esimated HP?
One of the first things I noticed as well was no rear shocks as well? I am very interested in talking with you to discuss running on the salt.
Great pics, thank you for sharing. It seems my dad talked to a lot of people, it's great to hear! I am going to need all the help I can get so that when we get there we have no surprises...

Thank you,

Click to expand...

I ran it in 750 M-PG, 750 M-PF, and 750 MPS-PF in SCTA, and 750 MPS-PG in AMA. I never ran anything but gas in the tank, but there was some low-hanging fruit in the fuel class records, so I ran fuel class anyway. Best record speed (two way average) was 131.113 mph, which was good enough for the 750 M-PF class record in 2001. I had let my friend ride it for that record, and he managed to beat my best times because he could tuck in better. Rider position makes quite a difference. I think our best one-way time was 137 mph. That was in 2001 in roadrace trim. When I ran it for the AMA class record in 750 MPS-PG in 2006, I ran a two way average of 126.461 mph. In 2001 I was running a standard stroke 750 engine that made 61 rwhp on the AMI dyno at Daytona. When I ran it at BUB in 2001 I was running a short stroke 750 that I never dynoed. It probably made about the same horsepower, or maybe a couple more, given the speed it ran. Those engines were built for roadracing, for reasonable top end power, but also lots of mid-range grunt for drive out of corners. There's plenty of room left for more top end horsepower in engines built specifically for landspeed racing. Hopefully I'll get some of those built in time to try out in the next few years.

Ken

very good stuff in this thread!

Ken,
Thank you for the call, I appreciate you reaching out and enlightening me on speed week. We have a long way to go but I have a lot of great people helping in many ways. I appreciate your time and look forward to talking to you again!

Thanks for the kind words, Kenny and John. I'm not as active in the new Norton developments as I used to be, so most of what I can pass along is past history, but I enjoy it. Gives me plenty of chances to get nostalgic about the "good old days". I'm definitely in the "the older I get the faster I was" mode now. I'm still hoping to leave some fast Norton footprints in the salt before I get really feeble. If all goes well, maybe we can get Paul with Sir Eddy's bike and me with the nitrous Norton together in the pits at Bonneville for the BUB meet next year. That would be cool. I still have my "Nortons from Hell" banner tucked away in a box.

Ken

Hello guys, Land speedracing is a blast and the guys that race in it are very helpful. While my brother was riding he spent time back east at Maxton back in 2000 and then was riding for a guy out of Colorado at Bonneville, They ran in about every class they could. The best they ever went was 217.945 on nitro, But they also played with nitrous oxide and all sorts of c.c. classes. I think the biggest was 2000 c.c. Over hearing them talk about gearing and things it was interesting how much more h.p. it took to just go 10 or so m.p.h. faster. The run when they did 217 the bike dyno'd 240 h.p. at the rear wheel, man that sounded great. He was still riding untill 2008 when the swingarm gave out right in the middle of the timed mile, he was doing around 190 and that was the last run he ever made. If the bike had not rolled over him he would have walked away without a single broken bone. I really have no idea how many runs he ever made in all those years but the team had dozens of records over the years and I think he still has 5 or so himself, They seemed like they were always breaking thier own records, lol. But i can say for sure you will have a great time on the salt and be ready to suffer serious salt addiction. It gets in your blood and there is no cure!!!!!!!! I have meet Denis Manning and my brother knows him well and he puts on a great meet at the Bub Speed Trials, I hope i can come watch when you guys are ready. :wink:

there is no cure!!!!!!!! I

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Until we run out of time or go down and not get back up. Mean time some say 5 minutes on a bike like that is worth a life time playing it safe. After taking some records for Nortons where would Sir Eddie like it to end up?

Btw the bath tub combustion chamber with Singh Grooves is the best design for stifling detonation

hobot said:

there is no cure!!!!!!!! I

Click to expand...

Until we run out of time or go down and not get back up. Mean time some say 5 minutes on a bike like that is worth a life time playing it safe. After taking some records for Nortons where would Sir Eddie like it to end up?

Click to expand...

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Hard to say, will be up to Paul, Andy and the rest of the family, but we discussed displaying it at the NW Vintage car and Motorcycle museum as a tribute to Eddy. but thats down the road,. now the immediate issue is getting it together.

so how about the original question laddies? Anyone know of documentation for wheelbase? Did the lowboys have altered wheelbases? Me thinks most Featherbeds had the same wheelbase, but sure would like to find out

the rear swingarm needs to be sorted and we want to be sure, not just pretty sure but certain. Measure multiple times, cut and weld once.

Also, that cyl head was top secret for a long time, those Combustion chambers were done by Les Barker and those are the Singh grooves you all heard Dr. Hobot-o rant about for years. I was surprised when Eddy started posting pix to people about that Head, I had pictures for a long time but was told to keep it quiet. The pistons were a debacle to get made, they are true jewels of alloy.

The cylinder is a one off,, Eddy made it himself out a block of Alloy there are NO liners, its specially coated and the rings run on the coated alloy, Look at the head and cylinder, there are small alloy ducts to direct air flow, the finning on the head is enlarged too. Tiny grooves were machined between each fin, and a thin alloy piece was curved and bent to slide in place.

The original 270 deg crank was made out of several Commando cranks I donated, the new one is of course all new billet and one piece
(thank you Mr Magyar for talking Eddy into it, not an easy thing to do is to change Eds mind one he decided on something)
the Cases were mis matched Commando cases, left overs from a motor rebuild i did many years ago.
##(So if anyone has complaints about Non-Commando content, the motor has many C-Do parts or originally did)##

Eddy was amazed that 2 case halves actually were dimensionally pretty close, way more than the typical stock cases, Most Norton Engine cases are way out of whack, most people never check, the cylinder centerline was also repositioned as well, Norton got that backwards