Shock/Horror at price comparison

trident sam

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I just realised I am still living in the seventies.
I wanted to make a price comparison with a few new bikes and couldn't believe the cost

1/ special 50th Commando - @16,500 GBP
2/ Yamaha R1 some top versions approaching 20,000 GBP
3/ Honda Fireblade some top versions @18,000 GBP
4/ Triumph Thruxton @ 15,000 GBP

Seems to me the only genuine British bike there is an actual bargain, but in reality I had no idea that modern bikes cost so much, and obviously the makers target owners are no longer 17 years old !
sam
 
I had that realisation a while back Sam.

And you weren’t even looking at ‘expense’ bikes. Look at Harley CVO range, or any Ducati with SP in the title, etc. Not to mention any of the specialist machines out there like Confederate, Vanguard, Virus, Avinton, Bruff Sup, et al.

I read a group test of ‘off road adventure bikes’ last year and they were all £20k as tested! For off road bikes?!?

So, seriously, the 961s are not ‘expensive’ bikes these days.

Mad world.
 
Sounds like there must be some big import taxes in the UK. Im guessing here, but might they apply to all on your list except the Norton?
Here in Canada, I paid the equivalent of 8200 GBP for the Thruxton r in 2016. That didn't seem a lot for the performance and ( expectation of) reliability.
The Norton 961 was near double . The Dominator version was a lot more yet.

New Japanese bikes are pretty reasonable here, at least in terms of performance and reliability per dollar.
Trouble is, I can't get excited about the appearance of any new bike except the Triumph Thruxton r or s, T120 and the non Dominator 961s.
Its not a big problem tho.:)

Glen
 
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Glen,
Having looked some more I can find Thruxton R bikes for around £GB 12000, but the real surprise to me was the cost of the Yamaha and Honda. I'm just glad I have no wish to own one !
Maybe they do have big import taxes against them, at least the price of Harleys should drop when we eventually leave the failed state :)
sam
 
I paid £11,750 in 2016 for my Thruxton R; I wish I hadn't seen that Canadian price!
 
Some of those modern other marques are throwaway bikes, spares support for some is marginal even if the bike is in production, a few years out of production and forget it. Factor that in and the 961 fares pretty well.
 
Top of the range Yammy R1 is a pretty exotic piece of kit. Not surprised they want big bucks for them. Some of the others though - bit of a surprise. Is the Thruxton actually made in Blighty?
 
davamb said:
Is the Thruxton actually made in Blighty?
Click to expand...

No. It, along with all of the classic range, and various other models, are made in Thailand. Even the little union flag timing cover badge is fitted in Thailand.

I believe that the majority of Triumphs are now produced in Thailand. I don’t actually know how you can tell what is made in England. Does anyone else know?
 
From The WEB :

Triumph switches manufacture of different families of bikes back and forth between the UK and Thailand. “We’ve had the manufacturing split as low as 60% here and 40% in the UK,” says Steve Sargent. “We’ve done the Tiger Sport 1050, the Speed Triple and the Rocket-3 here at one time or another, but they’re now back in the UK. So it’s not a hard and fast arrangement - the smaller bikes here, the bigger bikes there. It’s just what seems best at the time. To move assembly of a model around is not that big a thing, and if we’ve got a number of bikes being developed at the same time, you may want to share some of that development between the UK and Thailand. You don’t necessarily want it all going on in Thailand, and nothing going on in the UK, so you want to try and share that out.

At the time this article was written about 83% of all Triumphs are made in Thailand . All engineering and development are in UK.
 
83%!

Strewth, much worse than I thought.

Nothing wrong with bikes that are not made in U.K. of course, but it winds me up when they play the British Brand card, drape Union Flags all over the place and even build Union Flag logos into the bikes... then build the bikes in Thailand.

But that’s just me!
 
I have one made in the UK ( Daytona) and the Thrux from Thailand. No mechanical or running issues either bike but things are just a bit tidier on the Thrux. I can't find a flaw.

When GM built their first plant in Mexico there were American and Canadian buyers who objected quite loudly.
Then it became apparent that the cars built in the Mexican plants were of higher overall quality than the US or Canadian built cars. The complaints kind of went away.

If the machine looks right to you and works flawlessly then the manufacturer has done well. In my view they should have the freedom to source the entire world for components or skilled labour to make it all work, a profitable company and a good product.
I recently read a piece by Simon Skinner where he laments that this is what Norton is now doing with some components for the MK2 961s. He indicates that these components are coming from "overseas".
It sounds like the main engine lumps are coming from "overseas" but it is not entirely clear.
If it means the product will work better and reduces cost then it is a wise move.
It could mean the difference between a profitable Company and bankruptcy.

Glen

Simon Skinner's comments on the MK2 961

"It’s a pretty significant evolution of the original 961 engine, because the motor has been retooled almost in its entirety,” he says. “We have new crankcases, new cylinders, a new cylinder head, new pistons, new crankshaft, and a new gearbox, all in order to reduce noise vibration and harshness, and to improve overall quality as a means of refining the product. We’ve been able to go to suppliers that we couldn’t go to before because our volumes didn’t support it – but now they do, and so we’ve got a different manufacturing process for those parts. They’re all die-cast components now instead of sand-cast, although the sad thing is that we now have to go overseas for a few parts that are simply not available in the UK. But not only has the price for these parts come down for Norton, which increases sustainability of the business, the quality of them has shot through the roof as well. Not only have we refined the bike enormously, it’s also benefitted the business too, so we’ve ended up with a much superior product.”
 
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Let’s be clear Glen, the point under discussion here has nothing to do with the build quality or capability of the product.

And with regards to the global economy concept, I couldn’t agree more Glen.

And I know we’ll just have to ‘agree to disagree’ on this one point, cos we have before! But for me, the tipping point is actually building the bikes in one country whilst overtly flying the flag for another.

They said to me: “people don’t care where they’re made these days” which I can believe. But if that’s true, then there’s nothing to be lost by dropping the British branding!

They can’t have it both ways, they can’t say the country of origin doesn’t matter AND make Britishness such a strong part of their brand.

Surely, one or the other should give?
 
In the case of the new Bonnies, Triumph says they had 50 British engineers on the payroll for five years to do all the design and development work for those bikes.
I guess that gives them the right to put a small British flag on it , if they so desire.

They didn't though. The built in UK Daytona has the Union Jack displayed in miniature in just one place, on the tail (1" square), nothing like that anywhere on the Thruxton.

Eddie said "Even the little union flag timing cover badge is fitted in Thailand"

There isn't any union flag anywhere on the bike. The timing cover badge is smooth.
The headstock label says "Manufactured in Thailand"

Glen
 
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Yours doesn’t look like this one then Glen where a T has been supplemented by a partial union flag design? It’s the standard version over here.
https://goo.gl/images/MWHE8m

I don’t know what the Triumph stand looks like at bike shows in Canada, but over here, they most certainly play the British card.

Again, I’m sure we’ll have to agree to disagree, so I ain’t gonna comment further after this, but I cannot see how anyone could argue against the fact that Triumph are playing the British card very strongly in their branding.
 
Nigel, it does have the T with the two downward ticks there. I didn't recognize that as the Union Jack.
Its not much of a nod though given the millions of £ in UK wages that were spent on design and development.

Glen
 
Hi Nigel and Glen, one thing is where these Triumphs are assembled, Triumph source their parts world wide not only in the UK or Thailand, yes they are designed in the UK and all the parts get shipped to which ever country they are assembled, as far as I know both assemble plants are the same design and set ups, same tooling etc, but of course labour cost are going to play a big part in keeping over all cost down.
This is happening all over the world, keep cost down, more profits to be made etc etc, its happening here in Australia our manufactors and politians are selling us out for profits how many things I have seen Product of Australia or designed in Australia to only read the small print its been made or sourced from some third world country, our framers are also being sold out with cheap imports of food produce, so really even Norton is doing the same thing they sourced world wide but still being assembeled in the UK, but over time how long will that last as cost sky rocket.
Just buying my new Thruxton S at a cost well over 10k different to a new Norton, yes its old stock but the same model that replaced it on the show room floor is just $1k more than I payed for mine, does it really matter where it was assembled, not really but it was good that I could afford it as having a 2013 Thruxton from new that was so reliable and over 40k on the speedo I had no hesitation in upgrading to the newer model, anyway a British flag looks better than a Thailand flag.
As well even if I could afford a new Norton I still would have gone the new Thruxton as the surport is not here for Norton, that is where Triumph are up there and sales are getting stronger every year for them, they have proven themselfs, Norton has a long way to go if it will ever happen.

Ashley
 
If Dreer had been successful and managed to go into production with the 961 in the USA, would customers have objected to a bike with definite "Britishness" being built outside of Britain?

Glen
 
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