SBR Norton

andre1 · Jul 5, 2017

I'm too old to have Facebook.., but for those that do have it, take a look see how the SBR Commando racebike is doing on it's UK expedition. I imagine they will achieve some rather good results. Doing good work guys.

Go Kiwis

concours · Jul 6, 2017

Hi, Welcome. :mrgreen:

NoLongerHere · Jul 6, 2017

I have seen their success on Faceache. Do you know if they are going to the Isle of Man?

SteveA · Jul 6, 2017

Dommie Nator said:
I have seen their success on Faceache. Do you know if they are going to the Isle of Man?

You would have to guess so. I guess they are shaking down before the IoM, or the economics of the travel and shipping for a couple of club meetings are a bit suspect.

The lap times of bike and rider at Cadwell are very impressive, it is not an easy track to learn so quickly.

But BHR is not as competitive as CRMC, so expect that they will have to work a little harder for overall wins at Croft, but with that pace you wouldn't bet against them.

Brooking 850 · Jul 6, 2017

These guys are fast , I have raced against them in NZ and know them well, Flick is doing an outstanding job riding this very fast bike.
Here is the facebook link, you dont have to be a face book member to read their posts and progress, some good video on there as well.
Airborne at Cardwell.
Regards Mike

https://www.facebook.com/SBRNorton/

Just hit the Not Now button to read on

NoLongerHere · Jul 7, 2017

SteveA said:
Dommie Nator said:

I have seen their success on Faceache. Do you know if they are going to the Isle of Man?

Click to expand...

You would have to guess so. I guess they are shaking down before the IoM, or the economics of the travel and shipping for a couple of club meetings are a bit suspect.

Croft, Anglesey, Donington then home August 9th. No Island visit.

Snotzo · Jul 8, 2017

BHR permits methanol to be used as a fuel if required, and machines thus fuelled are identified by a round orange sticker on the fairing.
I therefore assume the SBR Commando stays with this fuel, thus minimising the problems to some extent.

A pity the team won't stay on for the Classic TT, but I'll look them up at Donnington.
As this will be a CMRC meeting the use of methanol as a fuel is prohibited, so obviously some changes will have to be made.
I trust whatever is necessary will not detract too much from the overall performance.

I hope they will have enjoyed their visit, and that it may be possible for them to come again

SteveA · Jul 9, 2017

Snotzo said:
BHR permits methanol to be used as a fuel if required, and machines thus fuelled are identified by a round orange sticker on the fairing.
I therefore assume the SBR Commando stays with this fuel, thus minimising the problems to some extent.

A pity the team won't stay on for the Classic TT, but I'll look them up at Donnington.
As this will be a CMRC meeting the use of methanol as a fuel is prohibited, so obviously some changes will have to be made.
I trust whatever is necessary will not detract too much from the overall performance.

I hope they will have enjoyed their visit, and that it may be possible for them to come again

Still turning in good lap times at Croft, but as expected the competition is a lot nearer, no 30 seconds lead. They won the opening F750 race, which is really nice to see a Norton do, and were 3rd in the opening 1300 race, but behind the TZ750 of Lee Hodge and Alex Sincalir on an 1100 Ducati! no surprise (to me anyway!) and certainly no disgrace. Lapping at very similar pace in both races, the guy is very quick out of the box!

There is an Orange sticker on the fairing, and white fuel drums in the paddock shots suggests methanol, for which they would need a dispensation at CRMC, unless of course the stickers are just left over from Cadwell where BHR would have allowed it.

Changing spec from 16:1 to say 12:1 in a week would need an engine strip!

ntst8 · Jul 9, 2017

SteveA said:
Changing spec from 16:1 to say 12:1 in a week would need an engine strip!

The "S" in "SBR" is a very skilled machinist and engine builder, that wouldn't be a problem.
I'm sure they will have done their homework, and i believe they have at least one spare engine with them.

SteveA · Jul 9, 2017

ntst8 said:
SteveA said:

Changing spec from 16:1 to say 12:1 in a week would need an engine strip!

Click to expand...

The "S" in "SBR" is a very skilled machinist and engine builder, that wouldn't be a problem.
I'm sure they will have done their homework, and i believe they have at least one spare engine with them.

Understood, but they themselves have said today they are running on methanol.

It is not them I would question regarding homework, but the club, I have not seen anyone running at CRMC with methanol before, specifically stated in the rules as a no no. But I can understand that if you get an entry from the other side of the world you will try to accomodate it.

jseng1 · Jul 9, 2017

SteveA said:
ntst8 said:

SteveA said:

Changing spec from 16:1 to say 12:1 in a week would need an engine strip!

Click to expand...

The "S" in "SBR" is a very skilled machinist and engine builder, that wouldn't be a problem.
I'm sure they will have done their homework, and i believe they have at least one spare engine with them.

Click to expand...

Understood, but they themselves have said today they are running on methanol.

It is not them I would question regarding homework, but the club, I have not seen anyone running at CRMC with methanol before, specifically stated in the rules as a no no. But I can understand that if you get an entry from the other side of the world you will try to accomodate it.

We will see how "accommodating" they will be. Once at a National BOTT race at Laguna Seca. I thought it would be fun to go play with the AHMRA classic guys in practice with my monoshock Nort. I pulled in front and diced with a Rob North Triple that was very fast on the straights, backed off and let him pass me. On the cool off lap I noticed a couple riders pointing at me. After practice a couple riders showed up in my pit. They were all upset and threatened to protest me because I had slicks. I told them I wasn't even in their class and that they didn't have anything to worry about - that I just wanted to practice with some other brit bikes. But they were way too serious - all huffy, worked up and having no fun at all.

NoLongerHere · Jul 9, 2017

Looks to have been a successful day at Croft. I reckon I'll go to Donington and catch them there (not literally of course).

SteveA · Jul 9, 2017

jseng1 said:
....................On the cool off lap I noticed a couple riders pointing at me. After practice a couple riders showed up in my pit. They were all upset and threatened to protest me because I had slicks......

There are riders and there are clubs Jim.

Gary Twaites hasn't had such a good weekend of it as he might so I guess he will be philosphical about being beaten, but I don't suppose he and Dave Watson are best pleased being beaten by a combination not 100% compliant with published rules. That in major part was Dave's problem with CRMC in the first place that kept them away for a few years.

But I don't see anyone protesting the SBR, particularly since George Hogton Rusling still managed to win the races.

From what I can see people are I think be genuinely interested to see the SBR bike, (I would have liked to have seen it myself).

And generally, we Brits rather like the Kiwis, innovative, great shed engineers, good spirit, they have clearly had a very good reception and rightly so.

However I am betting that at some point between now and the CRMC AGM, in a darkened committee meeting room somewhere, someone says, 'well that went rather well, maybe we should legalise Methanol and get a whole lot more summer visitors from the Antipodes!'

Hopefully that would be immediately slapped down by a reminder that in turn they would also lose a number of riders from Europe. Now a match race series on the other hand, with a dedicated set of rules, well some would go for it.

SteveA · Jul 9, 2017

Dommie Nator said:
Looks to have been a successful day at Croft. I reckon I'll go to Donington and catch them there (not literally of course).

I had to cancel my Donington entry after Cadwell

Hope to be out in Belgium later in August, and hopefully will see some people there who did go to Croft and Donington.

lcrken · Jul 9, 2017

When I first started racing with AHRMA here in the US (somewhere in the late '80s) we had a bunch of guys from down under come over to Daytona one year on some really fast Hondas (350/450 twins), and they were running on methanol. At that time AHRMA didn't specifically require gasoline in the rulebook, so they were able to legally enter and run. It was great fun, but AHRMA did change the rules after that to allow only gasoline powered bikes.

Ken

Brooking 850 · Jul 9, 2017

Thanks SteveA for the update, yes as ntst8 indicates, they did in fact take a spare engine with them, not sure if it was a methanol burner or not.
Young 'Flick' (James Flitcroft) has ridden in the Moto3 rookie classes and is fast on any bike , glad they are doing well regardless of fuel types and a good showing for the Anipodeans !!!
Regards Mike

Snotzo · Jul 10, 2017

My 'source' (Gary Thwaites sponsor for his 7R and G50 rides) told me he was highly impressed by the SBR Commando's performance, which also includes the rider in this assessment. He was under the impression that the Croft organisers made a special dispensation for the motorcycle to continue to run on methanol fuel on the understanding that any results obtained would not be recorded.
He noted the crankcases appeared to have been machined from billets, and the frame seemed to be something of a cross between a Seeley and a Rob North, but notwithstanding any minor discrepancies, the motorcycle was quick in a way that impressed him greatly.
To find the SBR team at Donnington, I'm told to look for the Kiwi flag!

Brooking 850 · Jul 10, 2017

Snotzo, yes billet cases made in NZ and initiated by the 'S' in the SBR name.
Jim Comstock has a set , as do I for my next build.
Regards Mike

Chris · Jul 10, 2017

Hi

I went & had a look at the bike at Croft & it is stunning.
Laughed my socks off when I was told the rider had flown in from Spain, ( Ive only seen little hobby kit planes take off from Croft)
When I was told its James Flit something or other I exclain James Flitcroft? are you joking! I wondered how many times he has ridden Croft cos he had it sorted. Was it running Methanol? Yes! is it eligable No! does it matter as its running for no points? & its travelled from the other side of the world? I dont think so. Loved seeing it, loved the workmanship. Maybe the rules in New Zealand are different but it fails on eligibility. Getting people out racing classics is the aim of the CRMC yet compared to running a classic how easy is it to run a post classic or FZ junior class bike. You cant run an original bike in Classic racing without it going bang, so stronger cases,crank rods bigger journals

great engineering. The frame was astep to far in my opinion.
I speak as someone who cant find proof that a 960 was run in period. 920 yes but a stroked crank no. 1007cc anyone? The boundarys are getting changed /moved at every step & to stay out there you have to do the same, because if you dont you park your bike, which sadly is what we are seeing in the classic classes.

My thoughts. Still loved seeing it & applaude them for bringing it over.

Looking forward to seeing a couple of fast Nortons make it over here from the states. Any chance? you know who you are & we would love to see you here.

all the best Chris

jseng1 · Jul 13, 2017

Haven't been able to find out much about the motor internals. ntst8 mentioned some info about it having longer rods and short pistons. A modified FA head from raw casting. Would be nice to know more about the porting, valve sizes and cam.