Rob North Framed Commando

Chris

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Hi Ken
You have done brilliant there. Six out of ten traced ! Only ever saw no2 & in my mind, at that time could not see where you could race it. All very different builds. Hope a few more turn up.
 

Fast Eddie

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Hi Ken
You have done brilliant there. Six out of ten traced ! Only ever saw no2 & in my mind, at that time could not see where you could race it. All very different builds. Hope a few more turn up.
Are they not eligible in CRMC Chris?
 

Chris

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Hi Nige

At the time. Eligibility you had to prove your bike / combination was faced in the period. The Mk3 Seeley Weslake being a case in point. It took Barry Gooding a while to collect the evidence. Funny as Gordon Russell went really well in one. (Really good eligibility man)
You would have to speak to Rob North but it's not something I remember.
Now we run up to 85 & have I believed moved on again. Might well be eligible today lol.
 

Fast Eddie

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I guess that’s one of the differences between the BHR and the CRMC that’s in BHR favour...

The approach is that the bike has to be built from parts available at the time. So, provided you can prove that North frames existed, and Commando engines, then a North Commando is cool.
 

Chris

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Hi Eddie

But then again! Haha back then with (Historic racing) BHR you could not mix manufacturers!
My favorite bike out there then was the panther sidecar painted in white emulsion!
Do you remember Micky racing the North Commando. I only remember him winning everything on the purple proddie.
 
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Fast Eddie

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Chris, when I was racing with the BHR you could definitely mix manufactures in the pre ‘72 classes. Hence grids were chockablock with a Tritons, TriFields, Greumphs, and goodness knows what else!

I don’t recall ever seeing the North Commando out, but then again, even if I was out at the same time as it, I probably wouldn’t have seen it for long !!
 
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If you build the bike to be authentic, you will take pride in it. It can be eligible and still be a shit-heap. Most of the bikes in Australian historic racing are eligible, but you would not ride many of them to the pub. My Seeley 850 was built as close to authentic as possible. In some ways, it is not eligible and these days we need a log book to race in historic races. It is simply revenue collecting by the controlling body and serves no real purpose.
 
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I have the advantage that I raced fairly regularly between the mid 60s and about 1980. I have a very good memory of what was on the bikes back then. The guys who make those stupid rules obviously do not know. They get paranoid about some really unimportant things. When they develop racing rules, the first thing they do is think about what they DON'T want racing. One of our leaders was even against race bikes which have trick frames. That means no Maxtons, Seeleys, Eglis, Nicco Bakkers, Rob North, Rickmans - so what would be left which would be worth racing ?
 
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A friend of mine has a Nicco Bakker TZ350 - it is to die for - a really lovely bike. A Rob North Commando would be good. Just enter and turn up with it, then tell those who want to argue to get stuffed. If they don't want your entry, claim your money back plus expenses.
 

Chris

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Eligibility card
Number on the entry form
Entry not accepted
 
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In Australia, a classic motorcycle does not have to be eligible to race in a club meeting. If all historic racers only raced at club meetings, the organisers of open historic meetings might change their thinking. It would not be difficult to steer all your friends towards only one motorcycle club and run without the eligibility bullshit. The last time I raced historic, I did not need a log book. To race again, I will need one. But when I raced back in the old days, I simply raced an old motorcycle against the moderns. It meant I had to become a better rider.
A while back, there was a promoter running 'Formula Extreme' in NSW. There was a class in which a Rob North Commando would be excellent. All you had to do would be to beat the twin cylinder KTM. Compared with an 1100cc methanol-fuelled CB750 Honda, that would be easy.

https://www.formula-xtreme.com.au/
 
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A good motorcycle is worth building regardless of any eligibility rules. If it is authentic, it is difficult for a controlling body to knock it out.
 

Chris

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It's been a long time since you raced Al
In England in 1990 you had to register your bike & have an eligibility card. No card no racing.
To say persuade your friends to run with one club & run without the eligibility bullshit . What a load of bollocks!
What club would that be?
It's nigh on impossible to get your mates to come out & race.
Look at yourself!

As to building a bike that doesn't meet the eligibility rules why will the club find it hard to knock out? They just don't give it eligibility!!!
Christ we have had wankers try & do this in the past & then had the neck to sue the club! That's our money being wasted in legal fees.
Build a bike to whatever spec you like because you want to! Not to race but for track days. If you won't to go racing KTM's Aprillia, Ducati twin drop the 105db down to 98 & see how the old Norton runs.
but please drop this constant bollocks.
Rant over
 
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In Australia, the controlling body and the clubs are all not-for-profit organisations for which the model articles of association define the need for them to be democratically constituted. If a Rob North Commando actually existed back in the era and was raced, why wouldn't you have a case which would stand up in court to get it recognised as being eligible ? - 'If you have a victim's mindset, you will be a victim'. In any case, in historic racing eligibility usually comes down to what somebody's friend wants. The common excuse is 'it could have existed'. I can point to one bike in particular - there is not even one genuine part on it, yet it is being raced at the top. And I for one, would not exclude it from racing - even though you'd need a MotoGP bike to beat it.
It does not matter where you race, there will always be somebody with a faster bike. They cannot win everywhere.
 

Brooking 850

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Chris, same here in NZ with the NZCMRR really.
No MNZ licence, no racing , no back & chest protector, no racing, no spec helmet , no racing and so it goes on.
We have to have sanctioned meetings by the MNZ which is governing body for all competition racing in NZ on and off road.
Leather boots and gloves have to be in good order, leathers only.

Bikes are scrutineered each race, if you crash during any meeting, the bike has to be rescrutineered , helmet checked and a medical check for the before you can go out again.
If you crash and cant race again at that meeting , the steward for MNZ on the day takes your licence off you, injuries recorded and you get your licence back once you produce a medical certificate to say you are fully fit to race again.
They are very strict on helmets , if the paint or gel coating is gone in any way or form it doesnt comply.


Recent races brought to light a non spec bike racing in the same class as the one I am in, slicks cut to look like treaded tyres, late model frame out side the class dates, bigger disc brakes and multi pot calipers amongst other things.. A formal complaint was laid by a few of us , didnt see him in our class at the last meeting.
Rob North frames are raced here in the same class as the one I am in.
Open Classic '70's

So the rules are there for a reason, not just for safety.

Track days are different.

https://www.mnz.co.nz

https://www.nzcmrr.com/index

Regards Mike
 

lcrken

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I think Mick raced the first Rob North Norton in the UK in Battle of the Twins class in 1985. I'm sure we could dig up period documentation of that, if necessary. If that fit's the rules for whatever group one races with, there should be no problem getting the bike accepted. In AHRMA racing here in the US, it would be legal in Sound of Thunder, Formula Thunder, Philllip Island Challenge, and Battle of the Twins classes, but not F750. No shortage of classes here.

Ken
 

Fast Eddie

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It's been a long time since you raced Al
In England in 1990 you had to register your bike & have an eligibility card. No card no racing.
To say persuade your friends to run with one club & run without the eligibility bullshit . What a load of bollocks!
What club would that be?
It's nigh on impossible to get your mates to come out & race.
Look at yourself!

As to building a bike that doesn't meet the eligibility rules why will the club find it hard to knock out? They just don't give it eligibility!!!
Christ we have had wankers try & do this in the past & then had the neck to sue the club! That's our money being wasted in legal fees.
Build a bike to whatever spec you like because you want to! Not to race but for track days. If you won't to go racing KTM's Aprillia, Ducati twin drop the 105db down to 98 & see how the old Norton runs.
but please drop this constant bollocks.
Rant over
Absolutely right Chris.

I don’t know what goes on down in Oz, Al makes the organisers there sound like morons. That’s for our other Oz members to comment on, not me.

But, as regards building a race bike...

Building what you want, irrespective of rules, and worrying about the rules afterwards is just plain shoddy. Someone who does that deserves every rejection they get!

Understanding the rules in advance, and building a competitive machine WITHIN the rules is all a part of racing, just as much as good tuning and good set up.
 

Chris

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Hi Ken
Our cut off for four strokes is 1972.
Every race class be it "battle of the twins" "sound of thunder" "bears British European American" all moved on.
Battle of the twins allowed Ducati 900 in then Hinkley triples. Sound of thunder Aprillia Ducati 4 valve.
You would
" have to ask the eligibility officer "if" you can run the bike in a later class"
I'm sure you can & I would love to see it out there. Bears have rotary Norton's & flying bricks ( Bmw) fuel injection. That's we're it would race. Dual class eligibility is no longer allowed.
We don't / can't race at Brands as even with 380 racers we can't afford the costs.
Imagine how many friends & how much money you would need to have in the bank to even begin a new club with "duh! open rules"
I would ask all my friends bring your bike out race or parade, just enjoy it
"Racing is as good at the back as the front & if you have mates on the same type of bikes the smile won't leave your face.
 

Fast Eddie

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To race a North Commando in the UK I think would be fine in BHR.

This was the class I had in mind (copied from BHR web site):

“PRE 1973 SPECIALS & CLUBMANS (UP TO 31.12.72) TWO STROKES UP TO 31/12/1967
Motor vehicles and components of European and American manufacture only and parts of a type manufactured up to the end of December 1972 are eligible. The specials must be of a type built e.g. Triton etc. Period streamlining may be fitted. Factory built specials and small factory runs e.g. Royal Enfield GP5, Dunstall Norton etc. are eligible. The specification, appearance and suitability of machines will need the approval of the committee”.

BEARS would also be an option, but only the 1300cc open class which has a pre ‘86 cut off so the ole Commando engine will be a tad out gunned in that class me thinks.

Or, of course, just good honest track day fun !!
 
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