Road Racing a Norton Commando

I'm posting these comments to encourage some of you young guys to have a go. I noted a comment yesterday which indicated that someone was aprehensive about road racing, and I would like to reassure him. I'm now c70 years of age, remarried 12years ago, now retired. I raced regularly from age 27 to about age 40, then sporadically, and I still have a ride now and then. During my first marriage I had kids and mortgage and the stressful job as a scientist , so I never bought myself a decent bike, always used a fifties short stroke Triton. These days I cannot afford to race , but I still sometimes still do it. But as it turns out my Seeley Norton Commando 850 is what is keeping me alive. I have a one year old step grand-daughter living with us four days at a time, and concurrent family shit that really does my head in.
When you race, you live more in 5 minutes than you would otherwise do in 5 years.
If you road race you can get hurt. The trick is to minimise the risk. Competence and attention to detail are of paramount importance. Buy yourself a copy of Phil Irving's 'Tuning for Speed' and study it. Surf the web to find out about two stroke technology, and if you own a smoker, buy a good tuning book. I crashed at the first five race meeting I rode at, and four times in one day at Phillip Island - don't do that ! We all go through our 'crash and burn' stage, except some of us learn to 'make haste slowly', and stay upright longer. I've never attended a racing school, but I think they are a good idea.
I can only encourage people to have a go. You only live once, and in my old age I only have one regret - I didn't do more of it when I was young, and I should have bought a decent bike back then.
I love the commando engine, it is so stupid yet goes so well, and in a Seeley frame with a close box, it is excellent. Take Care !

acotrel there you go again, offering up good advise on this site. One of the many reasons I love these threads. I hope that you didn't take offense at my wise crack on that safety wire job on your Seely head steady (it was off topic and perhaps worded poorly....) Anyway it is amazing to see what can be bought "off the shelf " so to speak what with the Minovation and Molinar offerings, TTi gearboxes, Fullauto heads, JSmotorsports pistons and longer rods, Maney barrels and cases, Comstock eng., CNW, Oldbritts, Fairspares, Atlantic green, Norvil, RGM, Andover, the list seems to go on and on. So hitting the track with a norton seems to be better than ever. The money is still an issue for me as it probably is for alot of other guys out there, but to be able to easily source the parts you need from these guys makes it so much quicker and easier it's just amazing to me. The reasons not to get out there and have a go at it these days are fewer and fewer from a hardware standpoint.

acotrel said:

my Seeley Norton Commando 850 is what is keeping me alive.

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Say no more. Spot on.

I `ve heard of "'Triumph of the will", but what about - Norton in the will?
Not gold digging, just asking...going to good home, hopefully?

J.A.W. said:

I `ve heard of "'Triumph of the will", but what about - Norton in the will?
Not gold digging, just asking...going to good home, hopefully?

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WTF?

WTF? =What becomes of the immortal Norton when the finite ownership is terminated?..ya know, til death do us part..[Cue Motorhead : Killed by Death].

Grandpaul posted this the other day and I would think we could enter a norton in this class too, might get spanked, but someone else here said that you have to beat the other rider not the other bike. Seems like it could be real fun!

by grandpaul » Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:29 pm

The American Historic Racing Motorcycle Assn. (AHRMA) has approved the "NexGen" Superbike class for 2013.

The details are not final, but preliminary lineup of approved bikes includes-

Bimota YB4, YB4IE
Buell RR1000/RR1200
Ducati 851/888
Honda VF700F, VF750F, VFR700F, VFR750F, RC30
Kawasaki GPz750 (83-87), ZX7/ZXR750/ZX750R/ZXR750RR (88-92)
Suzuki GSXR750/GSXR750R (85-92)
Yamaha FZ750/FZR750R/FZR750RR (85-91)

I know, most here don't consider these bikes "vintage", but AHRMA came to the realization that they had to move with the times or risk losing a generation of bikes and younger riders.

It is unbelievably easy to attend a track day type racing school in your area, then get cross-licensed with AHRMA and go racing on some world-famous tracks including

DAYTONA
Barber's
Road America
Willow Springs
Miller Motorsports

All you need to do to prep your bike is remove lights, install number plates, set up a catch pan, and safety wire a few of the nuts & bolts.

cjandme said:

Grandpaul posted this the other day and I would think we could enter a norton in this class too, might get spanked, but someone else here said that you have to beat the other rider not the other bike. Seems like it could be real fun!

by grandpaul » Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:29 pm

The American Historic Racing Motorcycle Assn. (AHRMA) has approved the "NexGen" Superbike class for 2013.

The details are not final, but preliminary lineup of approved bikes includes-

Bimota YB4, YB4IE
Buell RR1000/RR1200
Ducati 851/888
Honda VF700F, VF750F, VFR700F, VFR750F, RC30
Kawasaki GPz750 (83-87), ZX7/ZXR750/ZX750R/ZXR750RR (88-92)
Suzuki GSXR750/GSXR750R (85-92)
Yamaha FZ750/FZR750R/FZR750RR (85-91)

I know, most here don't consider these bikes "vintage", but AHRMA came to the realization that they had to move with the times or risk losing a generation of bikes and younger riders.

It is unbelievably easy to attend a track day type racing school in your area, then get cross-licensed with AHRMA and go racing on some world-famous tracks including

DAYTONA
Barber's
Road America
Willow Springs
Miller Motorsports

All you need to do to prep your bike is remove lights, install number plates, set up a catch pan, and safety wire a few of the nuts & bolts.

Click to expand...

Why would you want to enter a Norton in a class like this when AHRMA offers other classes in which Nortons can be competitive? Norton twins regularly do well in Bears, Sportsman 750, Foromula 750, and Battle of Twins F3 classes.

Ken

There isn't a qualifying Norton that can enter the NexGen class. Nortons no longer existed when the bikes in this class were new.

My previous posts on this subject are to encourage people to enter Production Heavyweight, Sportsman, F750, Battle of Twins and whatever other classes you can squeeze a Commando into, or get another bike to thrash. But by golly, GET ONE!

@J.A.W
At present my Norton will end up with my brother and he will probably sell it. He usually only ever rides historic speedway sidecars. One of my sons rides bikes, and I've made sure he doesn't get his hands on it and do himself a mischief. It is a great bike to ride, but too much for him.
Some of you guys should build yourselves Seeley Norton racers, it is an easy build. My motor is nothing, but it performs really well - enough with which to win. The main thing is to start with a decent gearbox. One of the close boxes from the US fitted with a standard commando first gear is enough. You would be looking at about $700 if you already have a bike with a Norton box. If you get hold of a replica Seeley frame, get someone to start copying it, and sell them to finance your own racing. There are people making aluminium tanks, and plenty of wrecked bikes with Italian forks around. Some of the MX bikes use ceriani or marzocchi forks. For wheels, I'd be buying Talon hubs and alloy rims, and using japanese brake parts. None of it is rocket science. All you need to be a ble to do is make yourself a set of aluminium engine plates and get the motor and gearbox in the right spot, the rest is nuts and bolts.
I've seen a few basket case commandos from out of the US - a good starting point. But I wouldn't use the frame. It could be cheaper in the long term to shell out for a replica Seeley frame. Even a BSA twin frame fitted with unit Triumph yokes would be better. Stay away from drum brakes !

acotrel said:

Some of you guys should build yourselves Seeley Norton racers, it is an easy build.

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All you need to do it yourself (including knowledge base) can be had through our Kenny Cummings at http://www.NYCNorton.com

For those across the pond there is Minnovation Racing at http://www.minnovationracing.co.uk/


Steve Maney and JSMotorsports for reliable race engine bits as budget allows

TTIndustries for the reliable race gear boxes as budget allows.

The rest is hanging ornaments on the tree or jewlery on you girlfriend, wife or misstress.

Data thoughtful & useful, thanks. - If this could be collated in a sticky thread -it would be most helpful...

A triumph pre-unit box with 5 speed internals is OK for a while, but it would be cheaper in the long run to stay with a Norton box with close internals and a low first, or buy the good stuff from TTI

Hi

Acotrel

Still cant believe you keep saying copy Colins frames, make a few & flog them to fund your racing.
Colins still very much with us! Its disrespectful, just wrong to put that line in print.
Contact Colin offer a donation to the Joan Seeley pain relief charity & ask permission to copy a frame.

Chris

Good point Chris and I doubt acotrel meant any harm there.

For the record, both http://www.NYCNorton.com and http://www.Minnovation.co.uk supply frames made by Roger Titschmarsh.

As I understand it, Roger was the only individual trained and endorsed by Colin Seeley to make the frames. I am not sure what that all means today as there are a few who make or have made the frames in the past. Keith Stephenson of Yorkshire did make the Mk2's at one time and Spondon may still be making them. http://www.framecrafters.net makes their own custom variants of the Mk2 in the states; Framecrafters uses TIG welding whereas in the UK they use bronze weld.

There's also the option of using a Featherbed and getting much of the benefits of a Seeley; this can be achieved use of a stock slimline or wideline or by purchasing a McIntosh Featherbed fram and bits http://www.manxnorton.co.nz/

Also worth mentioning Andy Molnar just down the road from me here in Preston, Lancashire - he sells Manx and Seeley frames and all the running gear - although his focus is on the singles.


http://www.manx.co.uk/

Acrotel, after many miles (km's) of spirited road rides on my '73 850 Roadster, I purchased another non registered '73 850 Roadster and couldn't make up my mind what to do with it, cafe racer, full Roadster or what ever, so after I got it completely apart, and riding a track day on first bike, plus heading off to tracks around NZ with friends who race the Classic and Post Classic classes( next and last roaund for 2012 Manfield 17th and 18th NOV) decided to build a track bike and race it (perhaps that should read "appear and make up grid numbers"!!!)
Anyway have been onto a few forum members with regard advise and tech info and so far have decided it will be a global build affair!
Slow progress, front end is in, Lansdowne (UK) fork upgrade with JS (USA)fork bushes.
Sticking with C'do frame (UK), although looks like it may need a thorough check at the straighteners just for piece of mind.Mods to keep it tight.
JSmotorsport pistons, cam and rods.(USA)
KW valve gear (USA)and Kiwi guy motor specialist head job! (NZ)
At this stage looking like a TTI gearbox.(NZ) Budget will govern this!
madass140 ali tank and master cylinder up grade.(AUS and PI)
jury still out on ignition, either Pazon (NZ)if I can get Andrew to make a crank fired unit or Ignitec.(CZ)
Still undecided on the carbs although was looking at Lectrons,(US) but the class racing rules may decide carb choice.
Morad WM2 rims front and rear,(ESP) although looks like the front needs a shift to the right to get it dead true.
And so it goes on.
Progress is slow due to me being away from the project with work for a month at a time and funds.
Anyway how once it looks a bit more together will start a thread and post pics.
Regards Mike

Sounds good. The commando frame can probably be made to handle. I suspect the way the swing arm mounts to the engine plates can be changed so the plates cannot flex. Perhaps a longer spindle, and pick up the ends with silent bloc bushes mounted to the footrest plates ? You'd feel a bit more vibration, but you will probably change the crank balance factor and move the smooth area up the rev range anyway. I look forward to seeing you progress your project.

acrotel, have a couple of mods in hand, plus have been looking at Doug McCraes frame mods.
Probably don't have the budget he has , although at this stage engine has had a bit spent on it.!
Any forum members out there have a good condition 5 speed cluster to fit an AMC box while I am saving my marbles for a TTI?
Regards Mike

Brooking 850 said:

acrotel, have a couple of mods in hand, plus have been looking at Doug McCraes frame mods.
Probably don't have the budget he has , although at this stage engine has had a bit spent on it.!
Any forum members out there have a good condition 5 speed cluster to fit an AMC box while I am saving my marbles for a TTI?
Regards Mike

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The essential stuff that Doug is running with should not be high dollar. I think if you firm up the the head stead with either teflon pucks or a heim joint and get another heim joint or teflon pucks beneath and behind the trans you have the key elements. Probably the most complicated is the steady beneath the trans where you would probably need a cross tube welded in place.

The rest of the Commando would be blue printing the frame (new swing arm bushings/spindle where indicated etc.).