Revove camplate with mainshaft/sleeve gear in place?

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Can you remove the gearbox camplate (to retime it) with the mainshaft and sleeve gear in place?

I have the nastiest feeling I need to retime the camplate. I had four gears plus neutral on my workbench, but can only seem to find three gears plus neutral now that the box is back in the frame. Of course, I don't have the drive side back on yet, so I haven't actually tried the box out, but I would sure hate to think about pulling that gearbox out of the frame again. Thanks
 

L.A.B.

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Re post

I think you will have to remove the selector forks and at least some of the gears. I don't think you need to remove the mainshaft or sleeve gear.
 
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Thanks Les. I'm sure the selectors and most of the gears need to come out, but if the mainshaft and sleeve gear can stay it, it'll save me tearing the drive side down again, which would be nice!
 

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BrianK said:
Thanks Les. I'm sure the selectors and most of the gears need to come out, but if the mainshaft and sleeve gear can stay it, it'll save me tearing the drive side down again, which would be nice!


I think there should be just enough room to pull out the camplate until it disengages with the quadrant, but I couldn't swear to it?

Revove camplate with mainshaft/sleeve gear in place?
 
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Thanks Les. I'm hoping not to have to find out but I'll report back if I do. - Brian
 
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Brian,

I just replaced the camplate in my Mk3, and can speak with fresh authority and pain. If you are simply re-indexing the camplate, then you only have to remove the layshaft and main gears, leaving the mainshaft in place. Sliding the camplate (after you have released it from the case) to the rear until it rests against the sleeve gear gives enough clearance to disengage the camplate from the quadrand spindle, and you can easily re-index. Removal of the camplate is a more gruesome task, and involves tearing down the entire primary drivetrain in order to remove the sleeve gear.

If you have a neutral indicator assembly, be sure that the metal tube is NOT interferring with the camplate dimple. If you agressively screw in the assembly too far, the camplate dimple will hang up on the indicator tube and prevent you from reaching first gear from second (it will still allow a semi-neutral position). If you insert the indicator assembly too far while in first gear, you will not be able to reach gears second-fourth. This situation is guaranteed to produce a WTF moment or two.
 
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Thanks Rick. I should have to reindex at worst, so that's good news!

I'm not sure what you mean by a neutral indicator assembly. I have a simple pointer on the outside of the gearbox, which points to 1-N-2-3-4 on a plate that's part of the outer cover, but that doesn't seem to meet your description???
 
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Ah, you have a Mk. III. I'm guessing this is some sort of "modern" contrivance my primitive Mk. I doesn't have. But welcoming any and all advice. Thanks again. - Brian
 
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BrianK said:
Can you remove the gearbox camplate (to retime it) with the mainshaft and sleeve gear in place?

I have the nastiest feeling I need to retime the camplate. I had four gears plus neutral on my workbench, but can only seem to find three gears plus neutral now that the box is back in the frame. Of course, I don't have the drive side back on yet, so I haven't actually tried the box out, but I would sure hate to think about pulling that gearbox out of the frame again. Thanks

I'd be more curious as to why you had 4 on the bench and 3 in the bike. What's changed? How far is it assembled in the bike?
 
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You and me both Dave. I checked and rechecked on the bench. I just put the countershaft sprocket on a couple minutes ago, other than that the drive side is off. Haven't played with the gearshift since. I think I'm probably being paranoid, but the current set up is a mix of parts ('best of') two boxes with all new bushes/bearings/springs etc. so who knows what the issue could be, if any?

I'll report back. Again, thanks for any and all tips/encouragement/empathy!
 
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Brian,

Sorry, I don't have an exploded gearbox parts diagram for a Mk1. The indicator assembly I referred to is a Mk3 part. Still, the guts of the beast is the same, i.e., no problem re-indexing.
 
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Got the guts out, it does appear that the camplate is off one tooth. Too tired to deal with it now, but I'll re-index it tomorrow and hopefully that will do the trick. Thanks for the tips folks. - BrianK
 

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Can't you re-time the quadrant without removing it with the inner cover removed? I seem to recall doing this a couple times by removing the shift forks and turning the camplate until the quadrant is free, then moving it one tooth and re-engaging the quadrant. With the inner cover on the quadrant won't move far enough to be free of the gear teeth.
I always put the inner cover on and run throught the gear positions with no gears or forks to make sure I can catch all four gears and neutral by putting the quadrant in 4th and checking that the plunger is in the notch, then pull the quadrant down to 1st and recheck that the plunger is again in the notch. When I'm satisfied it's timed correctly, then I remove the inner cover and add the geears and shift forks.
 
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Ron, yes, that's exactly what I did. It was off a tooth, as suspected. Dunno how. Just test rode the bike - it's a four-speed again (and the OEM layshaft ball bearing is gone).
 
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The drawing in the official workshop manual often has to carry some of the blame here as it rather makes the quadrant arm look higher than it actually has to be. The written description is not exactly wrong but it should say "replace the inner cover and make sure the arm doesn't contact the top of the slot before the fourth gear detent fully engages"
 
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Just a sugestion?
I really have no room to talk as I am anticipating taking my gear box apart shortly, but before one removes the cam plate from the fork could one just mark it in a similar fashion
as the clutch acuator ring and I'S cover? Then one could line up the marks and know they have at least what they had before you started.
Marshal
 
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I don't see how. The teeth are in the back of the camplate. By the time you can see them, they're disengaged.
 

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BrianK said:
I don't see how. The teeth are in the back of the camplate. By the time you can see them, they're disengaged.


But it would be possible to mark both parts once the inner cover is removed.



If a line was scribed across the quadrant up against outer edge of the camplate, then if the parts were assembled mistimed, the scribed line would not line up with the edge of the camplate?

Another mark coud be made on the outer edge of the camplate, level with the centre of the quadrant, so that the camplate could be reassembled in the exact same position it was removed?
Revove camplate with mainshaft/sleeve gear in place?


http://www.oldbritts.com/gearbox_a.html
 
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Yeah, that might work Les.

I took a picture of mine with my cell phone. Still managed to mistime it!

Then again, most folks are a bit more adept than I am.... :oops:
 
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As I look at it with the benefit of your good observation, Les, the hot ticket would seem to be marks on the cam plate on both sides of where the quadrant "intersects" the plate. It'd be hard (even for me, though I'd manage) to mistime it given those....still a darned good idea to check timing on the bench, through the inner cover window. Although I did and still managed to screw it up.

Folks, if you're reading my posts and working on your bike based on them, be warned! :oops: :oops: :oops:
 
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