Result of Tri Spark

What about this: Scroll down to "TriSpark gasket" Since the gasket is being offered it seems there is some general concern re the heat in places other than this forum. Whether this would really make a difference in the internal heat, I have no idea. Seems to me it might delay the heat transfer a bit but I would think that the cavity would still eventually reach the same temp as it would without the gasket.

http://decentcycles.com/how-to?Name=Value

I'd still rather see the trigger/electronics separated, despite the really neat installation and compact size.

""It's a Commando Jim, but not as we know it."

Good one!

Hi All,
Perhaps future Tri-Spark units could be built as a finned cover intact. I wonder if I should send the suggestion?

GB

1. Shoddily made and poorly designed electronic systems do not work as well as properly maintained OE inductive systems.
2. Aftermarket systems are easily improved 200-300% by use of better quality components and proper design.
3. Rather than make fit for purpose systems and suffer greatly reduced profits, its less costly to simply replace failed parts no question
4. Even poorly made electronic systems will work better than badly maintained OE, but failure can occur at any time and without prior warning.

mike996 said:

What about this: Scroll down to "TriSpark gasket" Since the gasket is being offered it seems there is some general concern re the heat in places other than this forum.

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Or simply a way of selling you something you may think you need? The "Tri-Spark gasket" has already been discussed: new-product-for-tri-spark-users-t6259.html

mike996 said:

Whether this would really make a difference in the internal heat, I have no idea. Seems to me it might delay the heat transfer a bit but I would think that the cavity would still eventually reach the same temp as it would without the gasket.

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As far as I am aware, there is nothing to back up any claim that the gasket makes any difference whatsoever.

LAB has actually taken steps to measure the temperature of the points cavity. Comnoz has also. I don't understand the wide range between their findings. As for the rest of the opinions here, there are just that, opinions, and they don't get reinforced by repeating them continuously.

rvich said:

LAB has actually taken steps to measure the temperature of the points cavity. Comnoz has also. I don't understand the wide range between their findings.

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See: "Tri-Spark gasket" thread, page 4, norbsa48503: new-product-for-tri-spark-users-t6259.html. It's interesting to note that norbsa's temperature test readings (174°F max.) and my own temperature strip reading of 170°F max. are almost identical.

I am thinking about getting a spare point cover and grind "open" the bottom half of it on either side of the lower screw mount boss. I don't want to do visible holes/fins and opening up nearly half the point cover on the bottom side where it can't really be seen seems like a workable thing to me. Of course, whether it really drops the temps all that much...I don't know.

But the oem points/AAU are part of the bike's "toolkit!"

OTOH, I guess it's possible that I (and others) are over-reacting to all this but frankly, the fact that an early Trispark had it's potting material run out due to heat is a clear indication that there was insufficient research done initially re the heat involved and the compound necessary to withstand it. With that in mind, what assurance is there that the components were adequately chosen for the same duty? It would be nice to get input from TriSpark here but we are not THAT large a group and perhaps we are the only people expressing concern about the issue. Maybe they feel "responding" would tend to give credence to a "problem" that doesn't really exist.

I admit that predicting a problem will exist by graphs and failure rates is not the same as actually running the bike for years to determine if it will REALLY have a problem but, as has been pointed out, I wouldn't want to be on my Commando half way between nowhere and somewhere else in Mexico and have a failure of the ignition that I can't repair on the side of the road before the banditos get me!

mike996 said:

the fact that an early Trispark had it's potting material run out due to heat is a clear indication that there was insufficient research done initially re the heat involved and the compound necessary to withstand it.

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I'm not sure it was an "early" Tri-Spark (Classic Twin) unit?

The Classic Twin ignition has been available for over two and a half years. "Early" Classic Twin units as far as I am aware, had a full metal backing plate-with no visible potting compound, and I thought the melting problem was traced to a faulty or incorrect batch of potting compound, and the problem was quickly rectified.

[Edit] result-tri-spark-t6483.html

I don't know what the problem is/was with the FEW failures, but I'm not going to worry about it. It's hot in australia, and I'm sure he used it for a sufficient time before offering it for sale. I worked for a company that made oem car parts, and we sent stuff out the door that was out of spec on purpose. If there was a bad batch he probably didn't know about it, so why all the fuss? Buy it or don't buy it. Nothing is 100%.

Doesn't anybody ever get caught in the rain? I know it is a potted unit but who wants road grit and water in there? The edge of that cover is right in the spray path from the front wheel.

Also some of us are not into fins, holes etc even though it would be nice to have a Tri-Spark lurking under there.

Russ

Old quote from Peter Rocke of Massachusetts Jampot Rallye fame. "Keep balls off anything with fins."

Heat problems, water problems... Maybe the modern solution for a Norton Commando ignition is the original ignition!

OK, I'm kidding (I guess). I realize nobody wants to adjust/replace points any more...even though the process takes nearly no time in the periodic Commando-maintenance scheme of things.

Mine's working absolutely perfectly. Can't really see what all the fuss is about?

I worry more about something really serious like throwing a rod, or camshaft lobe wear, dropping a valve, you know, sometghing that will cause me a lot of manhours plus cost me lots of cash.

If it happens to me (which I'm not expecting) I may well change to another supplier, but I'll worry about that if it happens.

pelican said:

I don't know what the problem is/was with the FEW failures, but I'm not going to worry about it. It's hot in australia, and I'm sure he used it for a sufficient time before offering it for sale. I worked for a company that made oem car parts, and we sent stuff out the door that was out of spec on purpose. If there was a bad batch he probably didn't know about it, so why all the fuss? Buy it or don't buy it. Nothing is 100%.

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I think one of the problems here is that it's hardly possible for any small scale manufacturer to do significant testing. We may be grateful that despite this, they're still prepared to develop products. Think of the miles that Norton's test riders rode in the 1970s and then of the problems which got through. When the RITA was first in use, there were fleet users of Commandos and substantial mileages could be clocked up over a reasonable period.

How could a a manufacturer test now, beyond his own bike and those of a few friends ? If he gave ten away to aquaintances with Commandos, how many miles would most of them ride and would it give any real overview over a reasonable period (He can't wait twenty years for them each to cover 100,000 miles). What is the maximum mileage that a Tri-Spark 'all in one' has covered ? It's only been around a couple of years. I'd be surprised if any single unit has covered more than 50,000 miles and there do seem to be problems.

I don't think that it should be a case of 'take it or leave it' . I too would like the advance curve and circuitry but not if it is likely to leave me on the hard shoulder changing ignition units when this could be avoided. We all run the risk of major failure with machines of this era but there is usually some warning first.

If the ignition could be programmed to only fail within 1/4 mile of a pub or café, I'd take a chance on it. I can push that far.

I've only ever ran points and Boyers on my road motorcycles and as we know points just work and will get you home.

The only true Boyer failure I've had was a coil on my Mico-Digital Power unit, apparently the only ever coil failure, (well they might say that). Every other failure has been caused by me or, in one case a bad strobe or old worn out parts. I still have an old Mk1 Boyer, the black box is cracked and bent but it still works and is used as a test mule. Like points a well set up and correctly fitted Boyer will be reliable.

Now that said, I'm sure the Tri Spark is another step, perhaps leap forward and like many other new improvements we buy some of the development is passed onto the customer, this might well be because of the relatively small potential sales and competition prices.

I say Tri Spark will get it right but they'll need good feed back, and the best of luck to them for when/if my Boyer fails I will consider Tri-Spark. (by then it'll be perfect 8) )

"Them who do nothing get nothing wrong."

Cash

Quote Cash;
apparently the only ever coil failure,


I though I had the only one [or two]. Jim

79x100 said:

I think one of the problems here is that it's hardly possible for any small scale manufacturer to do significant testing. We may be grateful that despite this, they're still prepared to develop products. Think of the miles that Norton's test riders rode in the 1970s and then of the problems which got through. When the RITA was first in use, there were fleet users of Commandos and substantial mileages could be clocked up over a reasonable period.

How could a a manufacturer test now, beyond his own bike and those of a few friends ? If he gave ten away to aquaintances with Commandos, how many miles would most of them ride and would it give any real overview over a reasonable period (He can't wait twenty years for them each to cover 100,000 miles). What is the maximum mileage that a Tri-Spark 'all in one' has covered ? It's only been around a couple of years. I'd be surprised if any single unit has covered more than 50,000 miles and there do seem to be problems.

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But we must take into account that the greatest proportion of Tri-Spark Classic Twin ignitions will probably have been fitted to BSA and Triumph 500/650/750 unit twins, so do we know if there have been any similar problems reported by BSA and Triumph owners?

L.A.B. said:

But we must take into account that the greatest proportion of Tri-Spark Classic Twin ignitions will probably have been fitted to BSA and Triumph 500/650/750 unit twins, so do we know if there have been any similar problems reported by BSA and Triumph owners?

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That's a good point L.A.B., you might be better placed to pick up that sort of feedback.

The points cavity on an A65 is likely to be an even hotter environment, I'd assume. Is the Tri-Spark popular with the Triumph and BSA owners, bearing in mind that they haven't had the Boyer flexi-mounting problems that Commandos have (and that they're unlikely to have sprags to destroy) ?

79x100 said:

That's a good point L.A.B., you might be better placed to pick up that sort of feedback.

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It appears "John shmidt" has already set the ball rolling-over on the Brtibike forum!

The main problem with the aftermarket ignition systems is the use of cheap component parts, and in the case of the Tri-Spark electronics being placed inside the points housing. The reason for this type of thing is linked to production cost, and in general manufacturers will have little problem with compromising long term reliability to some extent, in order to increase profits.

However in terms of function/performance it can be taken as read that cheaply made and poorly designed systems while they do actually provide a spark, cannot be adjusted to work with modified motors, and in the case of CDI type units will not work anywhere near as well as digitally controlled inductive set up.

I though I had the only one [or two]. Jim

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Jim,
The Micro Digital Power unit is supplied with a special micro dual output coil. It failed after a couple of months and that was about three years ago so perhaps others have popped since.

I'm happy with the Boyer MDP, the motor starts easily runs well and ticks over smoothly, what more could I ask.

Or did you mean you and I had the only ones?

Cash