Rear Loop Gussets????

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T95

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Jul 7, 2010
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I would like to hear your thoughts on installing gussets for the rear loop. When do you chose to do this modification and why?

I have seen the gussets sold by Old Britts, and several others that you guys have fabricated. I realize some of the custom work you guys are doing requires the gussets. Is this a necessary modification for all the frames?

I am sure most of you know its time to powder coat my frame so if it needs to be done, now is the time.

Gary

I am 160 lbs and will be riding solo 99% of the time.

1971- 750 Roadster
 
I and many others had the rear loop sag, then bend then fracture off one side to give tail dragging beat dog look, but not w/o loading it up with pillion or cargo. 1st stage of beef up is gussets but still leaves a good bit of leverage to carry over 100-150 lb of what ever you're hualing, so next stage is struts from the back of Z-plates. If the gussets over lap the thin plates the shock bolt runs through all the better. Look close at your it may already be saggy assed as steel bends some before fatigue breaks. I carry beer and feed bags and tires and people over rough stuff so I put solid pins inside the fractures, gusseted out 9 inches and have struts for the maxed out loads.
 
hobot said:
I and many others had the rear loop sag, then bend then fracture off one side to give tail dragging beat dog look, but not w/o loading it up with pillion or cargo. 1st stage of beef up is gussets but still leaves a good bit of leverage to carry over 100-150 lb of what ever you're hualing, so next stage is struts from the back of Z-plates. If the gussets over lap the thin plates the shock bolt runs through all the better. Look close at your it may already be saggy assed as steel bends some before fatigue breaks. I carry beer and feed bags and tires and people over rough stuff so I put solid pins inside the fractures, gusseted out 9 inches and have struts for the maxed out loads.

Got a picture of those struts?
 
Here ya go. Mower vs Motorcycle has been and still is a conflict of which priority to spend time and money on.
Notice the lawn is same height as hay pasture grass and I got chigger chewed about every ride in and out as they brushed off on pants into boots then chiggered me for days afterwards. But so what I was living on Ms Peel back then and intend to again. Peel's struts are slightly rectangular section Al bar stock. Bolted at bottom to Z plate but the top was more tricky. I drilled down into the end and threaded to accept a bolt through a tube clamp such as holds the grab bar on. First decade the motorcycle won, after too many dead beasts, blow ups and crashes, last few years the mower got the most attention. At least I was competent from Norton fettering to total rebuild a bargain vintage zero turn mower to show them ticks and chiggers who's boss. The extra Al tube hanging down are braces to hold the hard bags stable when installed. IIRC I had to space struts out a tad on Z-plates to miss the shock springs, but just did. They are easy removal-able of course. Last photo is w/o the megaphone as bracket broke and not enough time to replace before 1000 mile Ohio rally with my buddy Wesley and sounded like old jalopy with rusted out muffler : (
Of note is to notice the rear brake cable run with John Tinkle rear sets, never wear out no bind at all action.

Rear Loop Gussets????


Rear Loop Gussets????


Rear Loop Gussets????


Rear Loop Gussets????


Rear Loop Gussets????


Rear Loop Gussets????
 
Someone posted some incredible supports a while ago. They were removable without tools but looked like they would work better than most designs I'd seen. If you're going to be carrying cargo (wife, camping gear, etc) that would be the way to go. For 1% pillion don't bother, unless said passenger weighs more than you.
 
When adding struts do keep in mind a way to brace luggage racks as well as just the wimpy loopy. Btw after I had one welded pinned back on a few year later had frame power coated on return I noticed loop was put on slighty low tailed, so after many attempts at lesser methods to level it out, I put carpet on cement and lifted frame over head to slam bam thank ya m'am onto the loop till pleased. Powercoat ok for city bike but chips and grooves show up too much in rural rough neck roads so next time will rattle can for easy to spray over the wounds for me. AirCraft Spruce has air foil Al struts I'm eyeballing for new set on next Peel debutant showing.
 
hobot said:
Here ya go. Mower vs Motorcycle has been and still is a conflict of which priority to spend time and money on.
Notice the lawn is same height as hay pasture grass and I got chigger chewed about every ride in and out as they brushed off on pants into boots then chiggered me for days afterwards.

Chiggers? I never had to deal with them. I kind of questioned their existence and assumed they were just another creature living among the snipes, unicorns and fairies?


Peel's struts are slightly rectangular section Al bar stock. Bolted at bottom to Z plate but the top was more tricky. I drilled down into the end and threaded to accept a bolt through a tube clamp such as holds the grab bar on. First decade the motorcycle won, after too many dead beasts, blow ups and crashes, last few years the mower got the most attention. At least I was competent from Norton fettering to total rebuild a bargain vintage zero turn mower to show them ticks and chiggers who's boss.

I like the drilling pattern in the Z-plates, your design?




Rear Loop Gussets????

Thank for the photos, your struts are beffier than I imagined.
I see another mystery item on the Misses. Looks to be attached to the front of your chain guard, round and chrome.


Rear Loop Gussets????


Ok the city boy wants to know how you make those big hay balls. Is it like snow, you start rolling and it keeps getting bigger? Ever make a hay man?
Rear Loop Gussets????
But so what I was living on Ms Peel back then and intend to again.
Dam Steve, so much for simple bed roll tied to the handlebars? How many seasons of supplies do you carry and have you looked into towing a motor home?

I got to ask, with the lawn mower gone did you just stand guard over the field? Steve, it looks like you’re poised to run down every blade of grass to keep it at its rightful height.
 
Dave I will be studying the all in one rack and struts wonder for Peel as I want her easy to pair down to flat tracker raw by tooless fast on/off of full fairing,lights and luggage rack, but still retain the mounts for crashing on and riding off.

Chiggers? I never had to deal with them. I kind of questioned their existence and assumed they were just another creature living among the snipes, unicorns and fairies?
Ugh, they are also known a 'No See-um's" and sand fleas at beaches. I finally got to see them when I tried painting yellow parts outside, they land on paint to stand out as dark fine splinters, ugh. Finer than an eye lash but big enough to look like dust grains in nice paint surface. Other blood sucker here are the deer ticks big as a pea or seed ticks small as grain of sand, that love to attach between toes or crawl up to groin and latch on but takes over night to be felt then whelp up.

Thank for the photos, your struts are beffier than I imagined.
I see another mystery item on the Misses. Looks to be attached to the front of your chain guard, round and chrome.

Its one of 2 horns mounted as Keeny Deer did his.
Staggered crop circle Z plate holes my design to signal aliens and let air though.

Ok the city boy wants to know how you make those big hay balls. Is it like snow, you start rolling and it keeps getting bigger? Ever make a hay man?

Closest neighbor 1/2 mile away mows our 2 small pastures to bale, saw toothed oscillating bar or small saw like blades that cut it at base, then drys a few days then raked up into rows, then baler straddles the rows and rolls up till big enough to wrap cords or netting around it then stops so rear of baler opens and out rolls 12-1800 lb bale. I've pushed one I wanted to keep over edge of slope to get it most where I wanted then pushed it to final place, but other wise they move em by stabbing them with 4 ft long steel spikes. I first learned to ride canyon walls when leaving my two rut drive way 30 mph and tractor popped around a big hunk of rock with 3-THREE bare spikes aimed right at me and bike to impale on. I was essentially horizontal when my head passed over tractor tire and could see it was brand new still casting nubbins and shine showing while hearing myself and framer's involuntary screams. NOTE to go 30 mph level then .15 sec later be on bluff wall is almost same impact as landing from 4 ft, bottoms pilot and springs hard and could easy hit head on bar if not lucky or prepped for surprise impact, its not like hitting a 60' banked race turn or Wall of Death beveled entry and 'slow' speeding up to it. in this case I also had to fling a phase 4 handling method, by tripping it out sideways on power to let it high side back up [ "up" here was to face Peel back down to path ruts and get sideways two tire braking from bluff rock face zooming into face too. I'd rather be crashed up on rock than wiggle a few seconds or more on the spikes. Below is shot after ice storm that shows the rock and turn - learning curve almost ended at.

Rear Loop Gussets????


Here's how drive usually is on the other side of jutting rock. Perspective from bike/car don't allow vision beyond rock till very near.
Rear Loop Gussets????


Dam Steve, so much for simple bed roll tied to the handlebars? How many seasons of supplies do you carry and have you looked into towing a motor home?

Wes came with me to Ohio but his '71 didn't have much luggage provision so I carried mine and most of his kit, plus 4 place chair/table, 10'x10' 5 pole awning and a tent, plus unseen all the tools to do complete rebuild and needed most of them while others at rally > various pullers to lend out to such cargo limited unequipped folks with big trailers and multiple bikes : ) hehe also boot legged half gallon of Doe Urine moonshine to loop half a dozen famous Nortoneers and me plus later 70 yr old bored grounds keeper that gulped and gulpped then yelled to high heavens then stumbled off in an energetic hop skip dance jig singing to the woods. Took me 20 min to finish loading and on way out saw him working his way back slowly to main office, still singing and dancing a jig, amazing! Me and Wes laughed our asses off at the sight and conversation about to occur once he reached main office. Hope it didn't harm Norton crowed reputation.

I got to ask, with the lawn mower gone did you just stand guard over the field? Steve, it looks like you’re poised to run down every blade of grass to keep it at its rightful height.

Ugh, farmer told me not to worry about the grass, it'd just get so tall before
it just falls over, and it did that year, ugh. Brit bike hand holding allowed me to complete block up rebuild mower for about only motoring thrills for a year now since goats got me.

Here's mower catching air mowing up a steep, where i also catch air on bikes
going either direction, when grass low enough not to drag down speeding up enough.
Rear Loop Gussets????
 
If you don't carry your house on the back of your Commando, the only problem with loop sag I have seen is from two up riding with a fiberglass seat pan. These crack easily and then the weight of the passenger is on the fender and loop rather than distributed between the fender, shock mounts and frame.

In 35+ years, with both Roadster and Interstate seats and considerable two-up riding I have never had an issue with the rear loop and don't have any gussets. My $0.02 says if you are already welding on your frame and have it stripped, the gusset is a good idea. But I would not dismantle the bike just to add these gussets.
 
I used to and want again to live on Ms Peel, that means any every opportunity and errand so must be up to the task a long time. Seats only helped me when feed sac across seat and hard bags but the beer is better to strap to firmer squared up holder. Do not deface your enduring lovely Cdo's unnecessarily eh. I'm a hay seed now immune to proper appearances but for shiny parts and paint.

Rear Loop Gussets????
 
hobot said:
I used to and want again to live on Ms Peel, that means any every opportunity and errand so must be up to the task a long time. Seats only helped me when feed sac across seat and hard bags but the beer is better to strap to firmer squared up holder. Do not deface your enduring lovely Cdo's unnecessarily eh. I'm a hay seed now immune to proper appearances but for shiny parts and paint.

Rear Loop Gussets????


I almost speechless I am laughing so hard.

I am kind of afraid to ask but do cats like peanut butter?
 
I'm known as a cat booger'er so yes if covered by slices of tuna it sticks too.

As Dave and even me on 1st post says unless undue rough hauling ass gussets not a common need. But there is an unmentioned back up loop support I've seen operate on Peel and a friends 850 in a parade, over tracks and curbs and pavement edges, 250 lb man with 200 lb wife, seat would bottom on fender and fender would bottom on tire, so mainly shock springs protecting the loop. I like the looks of the various designs and how it tappers the loop profile to view. I made Ms Peels out of a vintage carpenter square, still got some its lines to smooth over, but only the outside, so close looks will make em grin at my expense : )

Rear Loop Gussets????
 
Ron L said:
If you don't carry your house on the back of your Commando, the only problem with loop sag I have seen is from two up riding with a fiberglass seat pan. These crack easily and then the weight of the passenger is on the fender and loop rather than distributed between the fender, shock mounts and frame.

In 35+ years, with both Roadster and Interstate seats and considerable two-up riding I have never had an issue with the rear loop and don't have any gussets. My $0.02 says if you are already welding on your frame and have it stripped, the gusset is a good idea. But I would not dismantle the bike just to add these gussets.

Ron,
It's good to hear you, and many others, have not had any issues with the loop. I would think that much of a solo rider’s weight is distributed mainly on the back bone of the frame. Its comforting to know this is not a modification deemed necessary for all frames. It makes perfect sense that as the loads increase and are placed further back the need for gusseting increases.
As always I enjoy seeing the creative solutions and reading how to overcome individual problems.
 
hobot said:
I'm known as a cat booger'er so yes if covered by slices of tuna it sticks too.

As Dave and even me on 1st post says unless undue rough hauling ass gussets not a common need. But there is an unmentioned back up loop support I've seen operate on Peel and a friends 850 in a parade, over tracks and curbs and pavement edges, 250 lb man with 200 lb wife, seat would bottom on fender and fender would bottom on tire, so mainly shock springs protecting the loop. I like the looks of the various designs and how it tappers the loop profile to view. I made Ms Peels out of a vintage carpenter square, still got some its lines to smooth over, but only the outside, so close looks will make em grin at my expense : )

Rear Loop Gussets????

Nice work, both sets of gusseting look clean enough. I really like you’re resourcefulness of reusing the carpenters square. Personally I would leave the lines on, just for conversation sake!
I forgot to mention, you got to keep that crop circle theme going, I like it!
 
Nice work. Is there some welding going on at the headstock?
Do I see an additional cross tube halfway betwixt the headstock and
the isolastic front mount?
 
Head stock area reveals silver solders 3/8" steel tube to lead Oil frame frame tube into the spinal tank.

The gold-ish glint just below the spine is soldered brass 90' to lead oil into RH frame tube into the oil pump, when Peel is about standing on her nose so uncovers the low rear spine drain to pump. It connected by clear tube so also a oil level sight tube.

The light-bright ness ~1/3 way down across the down tubes is a 1/2" OD tube TIG welded in way prior and must be showing up as grimlin bell light tan leather strap or light dust falling from grinding back coil pack mounts.

Look closer to see a red piece sticking out on RH where Z plate peak is, that is the handle of manual on/off anti wet sump valve. Can put foot on peg nor kicker until its turned forward out the way.

Ms Peel handling allowed sideways wheelies and new engine will wheel any time and speed, put I do lots of off road rough stuff and found the top shock mounts getting wallowed so now they or backed up on both sides so unicycling should be tolerated well.

I know I'll be crashing from my faults or many other things so Ms Peel's loop struts will be part of crash cage triangulation. Also to robust up the rear for trailer and maybe a 3rd wheel and then side car rig. Also struts is where I would mount Ms Peels afterburner passing gear, a few hundred hp peroxide rockets the size of chicken eggs.
 
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